From: Joăo S. Lopes Filho
Message: 7539
Date: 2001-06-10
----- Original Message -----
From: petegray <petegray@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Basileus
> Rarely do I have the temerity to disagree with Piotr, but I must on two
> counts here.
>
> > underlying *gWm-ti- is implied by such forms as Latin -venti-on-
>
> Surely Latin -vention- is actually vent-ion as in supine/ppp stem + the
very
> productive morph -ion-, which forms nouns from verbs, and is normally
> attached to the ppp/spine stem. (There are a very few words with -ion- on
> the bare stem, eg pug-ion-, reg-ion-, opin-ion-. The suffix -ion- is not
to
> be confused with the suffix -io/-ia which gives 1st and 2nd declension
> words).
>
> > The general meaning 'walk, go, proceed' of Greek baino: (< *gWm-je-) is
>
> apparently a late extension of a more concrete PIE meaning ('come,
> > approach'), implying movement towards the speaker
>
> I'd like to dispute this, too. In Latin the meaning is general, without
> implication of movement toward the speaker; you yourself allow that is
also
> the case in Greek; in Sanskrit it can mean "go away" in the RV and later
> literature, and even "send away"; (meanings such as "go to" are indicated
> by the presence of an acc, loc, or dat.). Where is the evidence that its
> PIE meaning implied movement toward the speaker?
>
> So your etymology still has some problems, I think.
>
> Peter
>
> Piotr's whole post:
> Some second thoughts: an underlying *gWm-ti- is implied by such forms as
> Latin -venti-on- (as in <conventio:> 'assembly' or <inventio:> 'coming
upon,
> invention') or German Zukunft 'future' (= 'time to come', cf. OHG kumft
> 'motion', ON samkund 'gathering', etc.) even if their relation to PIE
> *gWmtis is indirect. The general meaning 'walk, go, proceed' of Greek
baino:
> (< *gWm-je-) is apparently a late extension of a more concrete PIE meaning
> ('come, approach'), implying movement towards the speaker. If this older
> meaning were assumed for *gWasi-la:wos, perhaps the correct interpretation
> would be 'he that musters the lâos' or 'he that makes the lâos gather'. As
> to Glen's objection that the literal translation of the compound looks
> clumsy in English, that's often the case with exocentric (bahuvri:hi)
> compounds which sound less natural to an Anglophone ear than endocentric.
>
> Piotr
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Piotr Gasiorowski
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Basileus
>
>
> *gWm-ti-s 'motion' from *gWem- 'walk, move' is a bona fide PIE word. Apart
> from Gk. basis we have Skt. gati- 'motion, path, progress'. Lith. gimti,
> Latv. dzimt 'to be born' (< 'to come') at the very least shows the same
> formative principle, since Baltic and Slavic infinitives derive from
> deverbal nouns in *-ti-.
>
> (BTW, as regards your other predictions, the expected but unattested Latin
> form would actually be truncated *vens/*ventis parallel to mens, mors <
> *mn-ti-s, *mr-ti-s. In Slavic we would get *gIm-tI- > *z^e~tI, also
> unattested. The Proto-Celtic reflex would be *-an-, not *-in-)
>
> Piotr
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joăo S. Lopes Filho
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Basileus
>
>
> If *gWmti- had cognates in other IE languages, we must expect
> Latin *Venti-
> Germanic *Kundi-, *Kunthi-
> Celtic *Binti-
> Indo-iranian *Gati-
> Slavic *Ge,ti-
> Baltic *Gimti-
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>