Re: Alans etc.

From: Alexander Stolbov
Message: 7063
Date: 2001-04-11

The translation of Baksan's paragraph where he considers linguistic aspects of the Alanian problem follows:
 
<<There are only 3 inscriptions in the Alanian language made with Latin and Greek letters. In the work by Gothic historian of the VI-th century Jordan "Getika" (it is known that he was of the Alanian origin) traslators always come upon a "nonsensical" from their point of view phrase which can not be understood by them: "alano wu a". This phrase is the only one written in Alanian in the whole Jordan's work and can be easily translated from Veinakh as "he is an Alan" [Ya.S.Vagapov "Vainakhi i Sarmaty", Grozny, 1990]. Then, there is the Alanian inscription from the the Mayatskoe settlement consisting of only 2 words: "... alanui kan" (the beginning of the inscription with a person's name is lost). "Kan" is the Turkic word "prince". "Alanui kan" means in Veinakh "prince (kan) of Alans" and the word "alanui" is irreproachably formed according to the Veinakh grammar in Genitive plural [idem]. And finally, the famous Zelenchuk inscription which can be read in Veinakh without letters rearrangements and adding new symbols (what those, who would like to see Ossetic in the inscription language, have to do):"Jesus Christ, Saint Nikolai. Sons of the Sakhari kin: Khoba, son of Shita, Bagatar, son of Bagatar, Anbalan, son of Anbalan - these fine fellows perished on the plain. Lado" [Ya.S.Vagapov "O yazyke Zelenchukskoy nadpisi" - "Voprosy Vainakhskoy leksiki", Grozny, 1980]. (Lado is the name of the person who made this devoting inscription approximately in the X-th century). No matter how much statements like the following "I must to declare with the full responsibility: The Zelenchuk inscription has always been and will ever be Ossetic" is done, the fact remains - this Alanian inscription is made in a Veinakh language.>>
Then D.Baksan writes about a manuscript recently found by a historian from Jordan Abdul-Gani Hasan al Shashani in the al-Azkhar mosque in Cairo. This manuscript has been written by Azdin Vazar (born in 1395). Baksan claims that Azdin Vazar calls himself a man of "Alanian tribe Nokhchiy" and describes his islamic mission to the motherland (North Caucasus). Many Chechenian toponyms are mentioned in the manuscript; everywhere "Alan" and "Veinakh" are synonyms for Azdin Vazar.
 
I failed to find any information about this manuscript either in Latin or in Cyrillic sector of the Net. Perhaps something could be found in the Arabic sector?
 
Alexander
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Piotr Gasiorowski
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Alans etc.

Miziyev writes (of the Zelenchuk inscription): "... In a few words, the inscription tells how a few tribes once gathered and, having called to the god, decided to move to the plain. The inscription points to the disintegration of the tribe union."
 
This is absurd, and the examples of "Turk words" given by Miziyev just demonstrate that he feels no qualms about manipulating the letters of the inscription as him listeth (noble patriotic motives, no doubt). I have the text at home and will post it later today with the standard interpretation. The Zelenchuk inscription is a typical "in memoriam" text, not a momentous historical document of the kind suggested by Miziyev -- basically a tidily arranged (and therefore easy to interpret) list of first names and patronymics with a few evidently Ossetic connecting words.
 
I couldn't access Baksan's page for some reason, so it would be very nice of you, Alexander, if you could post his interpretation.
 
Piotr
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: Alans (was Re: [tied] Re: Warning to list: Race and anthropology)

I.M. Miziyev (English version):
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/7675/chapt6.html

D. Baksan (only in Russian and highly not politcorrect, but containing a lot
of very interesting ethnographic material):
http://balkaria.narod.ru/istoria/dbaksan/glava11.htm

Unfortunately, neither Miziyev no Baksan give the complete word by word
reading - only the phrase as a whole with some examples of reading single
words.
(If you need it I could translate for you Baksan's variant of reading the
Zelencuk inscription)

Alexander


> > However some investigators claim that Alans were ancestors of Karachay
and
> >  Balkar volks (I. M. Miziyev ), or even of Chechenians and Ingush (D.
> Baksan)
> >  and successfully (as they say) read the Zelencuk inscription as Old
Turkic
> >  or as Nakh respectively.
> >
>
> Can you give me some references on this, Alexander?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ed.


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