Re: Cymerians?

Sorry if I don't respond to all of your statements as my time is
somewhat limited today.

Your first question
<Where have you seen any Gallic/Belgic *com-brogi attested? It isn't,
as far as I have ever seen>

Answer: MacBain
An Etymological Dictionary of the Gaelic Language (Scottish Gaelic).
(See) Brugh-Large house, a tumulus, so Irish, Early Irish brug, mrug,
land, holding, mark, Welsh bro, country, region, land, Cym-mro, a
Welshman, pl. Cymmry (*com-mroges), Breton bro, country, Gaulish
Brogi- *mrogi (for Gadellic); Latin margo, Gothic marka, border-
country, Anglo-Saxon mearc, border, English mark, march.

I'm not sure of MacBain's source, however since it appears to be
fundamental to your argument against, you can research it and please
let me know. Otherwise, I believe that this makes your following
comment moot Ethe coining of Cymry has to have taken place
_after_ the cluster -mr-became -br- in Brittonic, because *com-+
mroges would have given *comroges (com- becomes co- before a second
element beginning with m-), which would become Modern Welsh *Cyfry.

Its possible you've not seen this form because MacBain offers it
as Gaulish instead of the proper Gallic. I added Belgic here
because it is apparentEmany researchers are confusedEand
assume only a single language, that being P-Celt, was used in France
and Belgium in the 1st century BC to 1st century AD. However, in the
opening lines of CI Caesar's_The Gallic War, Book I, it is clearly
pointed out that Gallic (in Gaul) and Belgic (in northeast France and
Belgium) were separate languages. In fact there is a great deal of
evidence that indicates that Gallic and Belgic culture were quit
different. I would argue that based on the duality of Q- and P-Celt
words in what is now referred to as Gallic, that a large number of
Belgic/Brythonic words have unwittingly been included, making it
appear to be a P-Celt type. If you also have a problem with Belgic
being Brythonic please see CI Caesar's_ The Gallic War, Book IV,
where he provides that the Belgae tribes occupied much of southeast
England by the middle of the 1st century BC and that these were
collectively known as the Britons.

I believe the previous paragraph provides the answer for another of
you questions < Exactly what Q-Celtic forms do you find attested in
these areas? The only confirmed Continental Q-Celtic dialect that I
have ever come across was Celtiberian. Please cite some examples>
Furthermore, Along with the tribal names I listed in the earlier
post, there are the distribution of Q- and P-Celt personal names,
recorded in the early Roman period, throughout northern France,
Belgium, Holland, northern Germany, and Denmark.

Your next comment is simply not the case, and in fact it is so wrong,
in so many different aspects, that it is difficult to fully address.
<They made the connection because Cimmerioi and Cimbri look similar
to an ancient non-Cimmerian or Cimbrian - the same way that you
imagine both are related to Welsh Cymry because they look alike. Just
because the ancients were confused does not mean that the Cimbri and
Cimmerioi were even remotely connected linguistically or culturally>
If you like I could provide a comprehensive rebuttal in the future,
however for now enough to say that the reason early Greek and
Hellenistic sources made the Cimmerian-Cimbri connection is mainly
because of the reference they found in Homer's Odyssey. Again the
Odyssey was formalized between 650 and 600 BC well within a hundred
years of the final dispersal of Cimmerian people into eastern Europe,
historically and archaeologically documented between 800 and 630 BC.

Finally, < Tacitus was likely a bit confused on this particular
issue. I think there is a rational explanation for his confusion (I
have seen it explained somewhere) that makes more sense than positing
close linguistic links between Brittonic and Baltic>
I would suggest that given Tacitus' education, experience, and
chronological proximity to what he wrote about, he may have been less
confused about these subjects, than a modern research might be.

I've seen many of these arguments before, But still I appreciate the
debate.

Have to go for now


Joseph