Re: [tied] Re: Underworld

MrCaws@... wrote:

> I agree that Cerberus onece appears to havee been more serpentine.
> This could be due to a sort of cultural merger, perhaps pre-IE Greeks
> had serpentine Cerberus, old IE steppe dwellers had a dog as an
> underworld guardian?: I have noticed the dog as underworld guardian
> is a more common motif among northern shamanistic societies. Perhaps
> this is why there is so much dog symbolism in Norse myth?

I always wondered if shamanistic aspects of Norse mythology may have
something to be with Finnish believing. We have to explain the tree,
Odin's hanging, some Underworld descents, the magical seidhr, Odin's
shape
shifting... I think Norse mythology shows strong influences from
shamanism, perhaps more obvious than other IE religious systems.

> Then again, maybe Cerberus is a dog-snake hybrid in order to evoke
> the characteristics of two animals.
> The dog aspect would represent the vigilant guardian nature of
> Cerberus. Another instance of this is the simargl(Sp?), connected
> with the gryphon, which is part dog part bird.

Something like that is related to Mandeville's marvellous travels: half
lion, half eagle.

> It is guardian of the
> sacred tree, or between the earthly and celestial realms.

Like the eagle in the top of Yggdrassil tree.

> The serpent aspect of cerberus would connect it with the Underworld
> deity, wisdom, intitation etc.

I am sure of having read something about a text where Kerberus is simply
called "the snake", but I have to check it out.

> The placement of Cerberus near a river could betray its serpentine
> origins, or maybe the river is used to represent the barrier between
> the land of the living and the dead, and Cerberus is there to re-
> enforce it.

Yes, perhaps the river is only a barrier. But V. Propp has a interesting
theory about the snake and the initiation patterns that may fit in very
well with the the warrior, the Underworld and the strange animals we can
find there.

Omar