Re: [tied] *PerkWnos' associations to underworld - Will the battle

From: Omar Karamán <diogenes@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] *PerkWnos' associations to underworld - Will the battle
ever end?
(...)> The Keres has nothing to do with Ares in terms of genealogy (not
the case for Phobos/Deimos, of course) or etymology (if my researches are
accurate... I still have the benefit of doubt.). They belong to another

> segment of the Greek mythological corpus: they make things unclean, >

cause various diseases, old age and death, misfortune and so on. They > are
even equated to "Fate". Perhaps they are like a poetic

> personification of the corpses' eaters (akin to dogs and birds) too.

Yes, Keres belong to the Children of the Night (Nyx). Maybe Keres have some
relation to Valkyrjar (dead souls'collectors), the Badb (blood-thirsty
crow-goddesses) or to Bhuta (corpse-eating
demons). Egyptian links cannot be disgarded.

> Ares is a warrior and he is not responsible for what predators do with
> slain men. Put yourself into his shoes and tell me if you would spend
> your time burying corpses.

Yes, Roman Mars have wolf symbolism but not Greek Ares (linked to horses and
snakes)

> > Does the myths of Odysseus or Theseus firmly relate to other IE myths or

has

> > the objective of these myths been altered?
> I ask myself the same question and I suppose we can expect a
> lot of bias here (noblesse oblige...).

Personally, I think Odysseus is a humanized version of IE trickster
Fire-god.

> > Regardless, there isn't a direct
> > one-to-one connection between the Hero and the storm god. That is, the

IE

> > Hero surely has more than one dilemma to overcome, requiring the help of
> > more than one type of god. The original tale probably involved three

trials

> > (one for each realm/function) since three is obviously associated with

these

> > myths (cf. three-headed serpent). We later find as much as twelve

labours in

> > the myths of Heracles (multiplied by four).

I'd like to add an animal foe: the speed deer. Cf. Cerynia Hint x Herakles;
Cuchulain pursuing deers; Rama pursuing the gold-antlered deer
(metamorphosis of a rakshasa).

>
> This is a very good point. I will try to collect relating myths to
> support a later discussion. Partners welcome!

In my old schemes I 've seen the typical Hero as a demigod, son of Thunder
God. He's a kind of "God of Strength": Herakles, Cuchulain, Krishna, Rama
and Thorr.
But my ideas changed later and I have no solid idea about him yet. There are
so many possibilities about Herakles: IE, Egyptian, Phoenician, "Old
European".


Joao SL
Rio de Janeiro