Re: Etruscan and Anatolian(Tanism/Velchans etc.)

--- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:

> --- In cybalist@..., "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...> wrote:
> >
> > Torsten states:
> [snip]
> > >Speaking of the color red: Many civilizations used vermillion, a
> > >deviously toxic mercury compound, for coloring things red,
> including
> > >themselves. The excavators at one Mayan pyramid had to take

special

> > >precautions not to get themselves poisoned. IMO this could very
> well
> > >be the reason for the demented behaviour and eventual decline of
> the
> > >Mayan kingdoms.
> >
> > Actually, I don't see this being the prevailing view. Demented
> behaviour?
> > Examples? If you're talking about bloodletting and the many

feuding

> between
> > the citystates, this was part of their very ordered beliefs and
> culture, no
> > less ordered and clockwork than those of Christianity where
> Catholics are
> > known to kill Protestants and vice versa. Someone's not talking
> like an
> > objective anthropologist. Perhaps there are high levels of

mercury

> in
> > Northern Ireland, eh? Does that mean that Canada has no traces of
> mercury?
> > Does that mean that the Canadian civilisation will remain

forever?

> Let's all
> > come back down from the clouds.
> >
> > - gLeN
> >
> >
> I thought you knew that when I open my mouth you won't hear the
> prevailing view;-)
>
> Some years ago, there was a lot of debate about the use of mercury

in

> dental amalgam and its possible toxic effects. So I became

interested

> in heavy metals and history and went to the library and did some
> research (which makes me the expert here, ta-dah!)
>
> 1. According to analyses of Roman bones, the Roman had high level

of

> lead in their bodies. Cause: their use of <sapa>, a lead compound,

to

> sweeten their wine. Demented behavior: read Suetonius. Western Rome
> fell to the Germanic tribes, who drink beer, and Eastern Rome fell

to

> Muslims, who don't drink at all. Neither drink wine.
>
> 2. National Geographic, some years back, did an excavation of
> Columbus' first camp on Hispaniola. On one of the pictures you see

a

> broken bottle, filled with mercury. Columbus eventually behaved in
> such a manner that he had to be taken home to Spain in chains.
>
> 3. Another picture in National Geographic: a diving expedition to a
> Spanish galleon: broken clay containers of mercury. Mercury

spilling

> out on the sea bottom. Spain transported 150 tons of mercury each
> year to the New World (from Spain and the Philippines). One broken
> container and mercury would spill out in the ship sailing for

months

> in the tropics. Without a thorough clean-up (which they most likely
> didn't do, there's no record of it) anybody sleeping below deck

would

> become brain-damaged, deranged and stark raving mad. As to the
> behavior of the Spanish, I don't think I have to comment on that.

The

> mercury was used in the gold mines, mercury in a gold pan would
> amalgamate the gold specks, and then mercury was gotten rid of by
> heating to evaporation. Anybody's guess how that affected the
> panners. This happened especially in Mexico, Colombia and Peru.
>
> 4. There was a massive mercury poisoning (eating treated seed

grain)

> in Iraq in 1971. Several hundred died. Several thousand were
> hospitalized. As to those with only subclinical symptoms

(personality

> changes, irate and rigid behaviour etc), no further comment.
>
> 5. Shoko Asahara, the demented leader of the Aum cult (is it OK if
> call him demented and not religious?) was born in a seaside town in
> Japan 50 km from Minamata in 1956, at the time of the mercury
> disaster.
>
> 6. The "first" emperor Chin, famous for his cruelty, was buried

with

> a landscape, in which the rivers were mercury.
>
> Self-mutilation is self-destructive, no matter what religious

belief

> you put up to defend it. Please note that this is not a criticism

of

> your or anybody else's analysis of Mayan religious beliefs. All I'm
> saying is that there is vermillion in Mayan graves, and that if

Mayan

> kings were at any time in contact with that they would engage in
> aggressive and self-destructive behaviour.
>
> Torsten

Self-mutilation used as a religious act that is widespread across the
globe, practiced by a variety of cultures with access to many
materials and lack of them. Mercury and lead poisoning as the reason
of decline as a culture seems like a secondary factor at best, and
certainly cannot be ascribed to all cultures who practice human
mutilation or any other practice. The Sumerian culture appears to
have had almost exactly the same features-warring city states, human
sacrifice, the whole nine yards.

Your critique of self-mutilation in general is what it is, but I'd
like to point out that Western culture has its own forms- earrings,
not to mention other body piercings and tattoos, and circumsicion, a
religious act of mutilation. It may have some practical benefits, but
it is a ceremonious act as well.