longgren@... offers:
> It is also a well known fact that northern Scotland was settled
> by Vikings, especially the Orkney and Hebrides Islands.
I wasn't even limiting to Viking, but generally placing a greater Norse
element in Scotland than Ireland; but not enough to redefine Gaelic and
pre-Gaelic elements. North Scotland generally does not include the Shetlands
and Orkneys, but does usually include the Hedrides.
>For many centuries these islands were even a part of the kingdom of Norway.
>They spoke Norwegian, were governed from Norway and were of Norwegian
> descent.
And the Faroes are still Danish, but this political possession is late
relative to our interest and earlier settlements in Scotland proper, the
Hebrides, Out Islands and westward.
> The article is flawed when it compares the genes of people in the
> Orkney Islands and expresses surprise that they found the same
> mtDNA as in Iceland.
Here, I would have to agree: if the position bases the 80% Scots on current
Orkney/Icelandic political lines only.
> And then, to claim that
> Icelanders are related to the Scotch is ridiculous.
Why?
> Vikings left many
> genes in Iceland, northern Scotland and the coasts of the British isles.
Your point carries more weight IMO if you drop the Viking word, and insert
Norse, Scandinavian or North Continental. Vikings are generally identified
as existing between 800 AD and the battle of Hastings (1066). In fact the
Normans (norsmen..northmen)
of Normandy, did more than any other power to stop the life style and defeat
the longboats.
Much of the characteristics of Irish, Scots, and some English groups
significantly predate this period..and are not dependent on it.
> The Scotch were a tribe that came from Ireland and settled in southern
> Scotland.
Here I strongly disagree. That is what was written prior to about 1988. The
current position: There was no invasion (or massive settlement) of Irish
Scotti, there was only a political union across the Irish Sea, with the Dal
Riada ruling class only coming from Ireland, to the capital of the state in
Argyle. Archaeology continuously reinforces there was no significant
material cultural or settlement site change related to that date. Said state
was stretched across both locations (Scotland and Ireland), without
eclipsing either. This leadership and political entity eventually uniting
native Scots to consolidate Northern Scotland (excluding the Shetlands and
Orkneys) This proceeding from about 500 AD, but the political connection
with Ireland was broken c. 540 AD (..the date of many sudden political
changes in Europe?)
>Northern Scotland had been occupied by the PICTS before the
>Vikings came.
Too simplistic on both ends. Vikings did not define Scotland, nor did the
Irish, and Picts were a largely unknown group of tribes that may have been
much more varied than anyone's current definition, and they contribute as
much as any group since to define modern ethnic Scots. (In fact they may be
current ethnic Scots. with continuous Norse intrusion contributing.)
> Any similarity in DNA is mostly from Viking genes being found in
> both places. And, to a lesser extent, from Irish genes being found in
> both places.
Sorry, doesn't hold up. Viking (IMO) is more a definition of a raiding
behavior specific to a region than it is a name for a people. You can't
reasonably redefine the entire North sea periphery population on this very
limited Viking period, nor would I attempt to deny older commonality
throughout the region.
Vikings were often described as being red-haired.
Red hair is still very common in Ireland and Scotland..but recent DNA
testing has suggested that Connacht Irish with Gaelic surnames have been
there since the Neolithic. (Herodotus also puts Red heads North of the
Danube..and they are now long gone..no shortage of Blonds however.
> Scottish Highlands have the highest proportion of redheads of any place
> on Earth. Norway, Ireland and Iceland have many redheads too. The
> Scottish Highlands were settled by Vikings and have a Viking physical
> type.
Again, I think you are trying to define much more ancient elements with a
historical time limited descriptor: Viking.
Cu Stima;
Rex H. McTyeire
Bucharest, Romania