From: tgpedersen@...
Message: 6278
Date: 2001-03-02
> --- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:ethnony=
>
> > The 'lat-enders' and the 'winter-enders'? Well if you say so.
>
> Before we start another productive discussion - this time on Baltic
> my - here's a brief of the latest papers on the topic (not what Isay or yo=
> u say - rather what they say):and pre=
>
> 1. Proto-Baltic *gal-ind- (two different tribes - lived in Prussia
> sent-day Moscow district).ind is re=
>
> 1.1 (Bu_ga, Endzeli_ns, Fraenkel, Vasmer, Toporov et al.) - *gal-
> lated to Lith. ga~las 'border; end', cf. Germ. Markomannen, Ukr.ukrai"n'ci,=
> Latv. dzi_vot pasaules gala_ 'live at the back of beyond (lit. onthe borde=
> r of the world)''deep',=
> 1.2 (Nalepa, Maz^iulis) - *gal-ind is related to Baltic *gal-/*gil-
> i. e., of a hydronymic origin, cf. Galent, Galanten 'a lake inPoland (1379=
> , now Giela,dzkie jezioro)', Galinde 'a right tributary of theNarew River'
> 1.3 (Schmid) - *gal-ind is related to Lith. gale.'ti 'be able,mighty', gal=
> ia` 'power', gali`ngas 'mighty' and to (attention, Torsten) Cymr.gallu 'be=
> able, mighty', Irish gal 'power', Lat. Galli , Gallia.Venedikos 't=
>
> 1.4 Ptolemy, Geography: Galindoi; Greek Phinikos, Galindikos,
> itle of Volusianus ( III c. AD)'Galindia 'toponym'=
> 1.5 Peter of Dusburg, Chronicon terre Prussie (XIV c):
> (< Pruss. Galinda), Galindite 'ethnonym'.Moscow' (re=
> 1.6 Old Russian gol'adI (XI, XII cc.) 'a tribe near present-day
> gularly < Proto-Slavic *gole,dI < Baltic *galind-).Holetitz, Ho=
>
> 1.7 Greek Kalidonia:Kalindia 'a city in ancient Macedonia'
> 1.8 Czech Holedec^, Holedec^ek, Holes^ice, Germ. Gross-, Klein-
> leditz (earlier Golensizi), 'toponyms in the Sudeten mountains' (<* Slavic =
> gole,d-), Old Polish gradice Golensiczeshe, Golendzin 'toponyms',Golandin, =
> Golanda 'anthroponyms'.gora 'oron=
> 1.9 Russ. Goledin'ja, Gol'ad'anka, Goled' 'hydronyms', Gol'adina
> ym', Gol'aaz^'je, Vsgoliaz^'je, Gol'adi 'villages' (from Pripiatto Volga),=
> Gol'adin 'last name'.with the Go=
> 1.10 (Sachs, Mastrelli, Toporov, Dini) *gal-ind- reached, along
> ths, the Iberian Peninsula:cc'
> - Galin(d) Garc,iaz el bueno de Aragon (a friend of Cid Campeador),
> - Galindus, Galin 'anthroponym, popular in northern Spain in IX-XII
> - Cast. Galindo, Cat. Gali 'anthroponym', Cast.Galindez 'pathronymic anthr=
> oponym',in Cata=
> - Gainde, Gaindo, villa Gaindanes 'toponyms in Portugal'
> - Castel de Galindo, Tor de Galindo 'toponyms in Castile'
> - Castelgali, St. Joan de Gali, Font Gali, Punta Galindab 'toponyms
> lonia',Iberian ono=
> - Garindain 'toponym in the Basque Country'
> (alternative hypothesis posits Germanic origin for *Galind- in
> mastics).Latv. Latava=
>
> 2. Proto-Baltic *lat-gal- (a tribe in present-day East Latvia).
>
> 2.1 (Bu_ga, Mu"lenbachs, Endzeli_ns) - *lat-gal- is related to
> , Latupe, Late (<*Lata:-) 'hydronyms' < Baltic *le:ta- 'marsh' +gal- 'borde=
> r'.the com=
> 2.2 (Karaliu_nas) lat-:let-i- < 'autonym of Latgals (< 'a member of
> munity')'analyze=
> It's interesting that in some papers the compound -gal- is not even
> d (considered obvous?).diffusi Lyvon=
>
> 2.3 Old Russian lUtIgola, lotygola 'toponyms (XI c.)'
> 2.4 Heinrici Chronicon (XIII c) reliqui per terramusquequaque
> es ac Lethos, qui proprie dicuntur Lethigalli, cum armis suisvocant... Leth=
> i vel Letthigalli, adhuc pagani....Letthigallia ... terraLethorum ... Letht=
> hi ... Lettti ... Lettia ... Livonia et Letthia, German sources ofthe same =
> period Letten, Lettland, Lettlant(probably Cel=
> 2.3 Latin Lato:vici 'a (probably Celtic) tribonym', Laetus 'a
> tic or Germanic) tribonym', Latin Letavia, Irish Letha 'WesternGallia'
>z', s- s=
> 3. Proto-Baltic *z'eim-gal- (z' for palatalized z, close to Polish
> ubstitution in medieval sources is normal).Old Russia=
>
> 3.1 (Bu_ga, Endzeli_ns) - Lith. Z^ie~mgala 'toponym', as well as
> n and Old Swedish forms support *z'eim- 'north' ('northlanders');Lith. Z^em=
> ~gala 'toponym' supports *z'em- 'low' ('lowlanders').Z^eimena` 'rivers'
> 3.2 (Bus^s) of hydronymic origin, cf. Lith. Z^eimi`ke.,
> The compound -gal- is not even analyzed - 'border' is silentlyassumed ever=
> ywhere.Semigalia 'East B=
>
> 3.2 Old Norse Simkala, Old Danish SOEimgala, (Latinized)
> altic toponyms (XIII c)'; Old Swedish Seimgaler 'ethnonym inIngvarsaga viT=
> fOrla'toponym'
> 3.3 Old Russ. zimigola 'Baltic tribe west of PolotIskU' (XII c)
> 3.3 Lat. (Cronicon Livoniae) portus Semigallorum 'East Baltic
> 3.4 Flemish (XV c) Zamegaelz:Tzamegaelz 'a language in present daynorthern=
> part of Lithuania'*sem-
> 3.5 Medieval German sources - Semegallen, Semgallen.
>
> Now if you are still here...
> > How about this: The Latvian *gal-'s and the Sem- *gal-'s, where
> > is the same as in Saami and Suomi (and possibly Samland andSamsø?),
> > thus "the celts who now speak Baltic" and "the celts who nowspeak
> > Fennic"? (the s- for z- I have from Saxo, it might beinsurmountable,
> > but I liked the semantic part of this idea).tribony=
> >
>
> I don't see your point. Do you mean the original form of the Baltic
> m was *sem-, not *z'eim- and Lith. z^iem~- (z^ like s in pleasure),as well =
> as the Old Russian and the Flemish forms are late folk-etymologicalcorrupti=
> ons? Or do you mean *sem- is an old substratic (pre-IE?)toponymic/ethnonymi=
> c element, reflexed in Finno-Ugric, Baltic and Germanic? Or may be*sem- is =
> of a Finno-Ugric origin, adopted by the Balts etc? But *z'eim-gal-(or desig=
> nate them as you like) spoke a Baltic language, not "Fennic" one -there are=
> undisputable Baltic traces in toponymy, Lithuanian dialects etc.hypothesi=
>
> As for Celtic gal- (?), even Schmid with his (as usual) eccentric
> s doesn't claim gal- means 'Celtic', but rather 'mighty'.Hm. Let me reconstruct this conversation.
>
> Sergei