--- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> Your attempt to compare <Illyrian> with words like <lirë> or <yll>,
is like groping in the dark at random.
Hello Piotr and thank you for paying consideration to what I wrotte.
As I have mentioned in my post, I am not a linguist and what I was
writting about with any small exception were not my own thesis.
It was a questioning of opinion mentioning the explanation of
<Illyrian> in some Albanian words. The thesis the <Illyrian> is
related to <i lirë> is brought - as far as a know - long ago by
German linguists, and a few have spoken against this.
I think the logic to follow was the turning into slaves of many
groups of people by Greeks and Romans, at a time when Illirians were
still <free people>.
I thought that you might have read about those thesis before, because
they are common not only in Albania.
Piotr wrotte:
Illyrian was spoken more than 2000 years ago, and disappeared almost
without a trace.
Me:
Is this for sure ?
Piotr:
To compare it directly with modern Albanian only in order to glean a
few eye-catching resemblances is a methodological error.
Me:
I understand what you mean. But do you know how <i lirë> was called
in old Albanian dialects ?
Piotr:
...(it is enough to reflect to what extent Latin loanwords in
Albanian have been affected, e.g. mjek < medicu-, or prind < parente-
).
Me:
That is why I was mentioning that "the", "tha" doesn´t ocurr to me to
be found in Italian. It must be a pure ancient Albanian word.
You didn´t comment the suggestion (also not mine) that <the>, <tha>
(e thëna = spoken word, á thán = is said) is to be found in <Athene>
as God of Speech.
As what regards Latin there is at least one form I personaly think it
should have been borrowed from ancient Albanian, which is <prince>,
<principe>, <principel> all connected to leading <prij>(alb.).
But the very origin of <prij> has to be found in the word <of origin>
which is <prej>.
<Prej nga je ?> = <Where are you from ?>
<Prej nga vjen ?> = <Where do you come from ?>
The answer is <prej..> = <from...>... origin.
In Geg we find sometimes <prij> to have the same meaning as <prej>,
but in generally in both dialects <prej> and <prij> show contrary
direction.
<prej> = <from>.. as origin, the past (another meaning is <to cut>).
<prij> = <ahead>, <lead>.. as the future.
From <prij> has derived <prijës>, <prij´s>, <prinës> (ai prin,
prandaj është prinës), <prin´s>, <prin´c> = leader, the head a group
of people.
<Na priftë udha e mbarë !> ~ may we be led to the right way, may the
way ahead us be the right one.
<A principe> is what leads you through your life.
Piotr:
> Before you compare an Albanian word with anything outside Albanian,
you should first examine its history and learn what it looked like in
the past. The "star" word <(h)yll>, for example, derives ultimately
from PIE *sh2ul- 'sun'; the reconstructed older stages of its
development do not resemble <Illyr-> at all ..
Me:
The connenction with <(h)yll> (aslo this is not my thesis) was in the
words HILLIR, HILLIRIA, HILLIRICOS, HILLIRICUM having the root <HILL>
which might have taken the form <HYLL>.
Piotr:
(quite apart from the question why the Illyrians should have called
themselves the Starry or Sunny Folk).
Me:
Another connetcion of the Illyrian to Albanian is said to be the name
of Illyrian King Bardhylis = Bardhë (H)Ylli (the White Star).
Now, the word <bardhë>(alb.)=<white> is said to be a Thracian one. I
don´t know if it has survived in any another language except
Albanian, but the most important thing is the connection of Albanian
to Thracian.
I don´t know if Thracians lived at the same time as Illyrians. This
might be something you would give a better answer then me.
Another question is: Was Thracian an Illirian dialect as some people
suggest ?
Going back to <Bardhylis>, if the thesis above (which is not mine) is
true, then it would be no wonder why people who name their king <The
White Star> would call themselves <Starry>.
Quite apart from what I have written above, this kind of question has
to be raised:
Do the Greeks call themselves Greeks ?
Do Albanians call themselves Albanians ?
Did Illyrians call themselves Illyrians ?
Piotr:
> Again, you compare <thotë> with the "matching" <Thoth>, <Teuta> and
<thought>, but in doing so you ignore the history of the languages in
question and the structure of the words...
Me:
Piotr, thank you for explaining me the origins of the words. Not
being a linguist it is a bitt hard for me to understand your
explanations as it should.
What regards the comparison of <Thoth> to <Thotë>, as I have
mentioned, is not done by me, but by the Italian linguist Giovanni
Catapano in his book "Thoth parlava albanese", which was the result
of 40 years of study.
Piotr:
> I have no idea what the correct etymology of "Illyrian" is, because
almost nothing is known about the Illyrian language(s) in general.
Me:
Then you cannot have any idea how the etymology of "Teuta" is. You
can not also say that you know that "Illyrian" doesn´t have to do
with <i lirë> or <(h)ylli> or with old Albanian at all.
And you could always say that the name "Illyrian" was given them by
some other people.
I still think Albanian gives etymologists a good chance to deciphre -
- with the help of logic - so called dead languages as Illyrians,
Etruscian or even old Greek.
Didn´t you bring in this forum a post written in some journal about
the affinity of Etruscian to Albanian ?
Piotr, thank you again for the other explanations in your post.
Regards
Alvin Ekmekciu
alvi@...