Re: [tied] Re: Yama's buffalo... or Manus' Horse?

----- Original Message -----
From: <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 9:14 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Yama's buffalo... or Manus' Horse?


(...)
> Heracles originally was the spouse and consort of Hera (as his name
> suggests). When Zeus appeared on the scene Zeus took his place, and
> he was demoted. The demotion was reflected in his "12 labours" and
> the fact that as a patriarchal culture, it was his past wife (Hera)
> and not the usurping spouse (recast as his father, Zeus) who had to
> try to dispose of him. He is the immortal of a twin brother,
> Iphicles was mortal, Heracles immortal.

I have some doubts if Herakles < Hera. I think this was a folk etymology.
But you're theory about Hera's consort is consistent and plausible. As you
said the Greek mythology was a "mix" of many different mythic level, which
almost make impossible to separated them.

>
> Glen again
> > > So if the God Twins are immortal and Heracles also has a divine
> birth and
> > > one of the Twins commits murder and Heracles ends up mortal and
> doing
> > > labours... what am I supposed to think? The two stories are
> connected
> > > perfectly like a jig-saw puzzle.
> Very often one God is immortal, the other twin is mortal. This was
> certainly the case with Castor and Polydeuces.

This a very common pattern in Greek legends: Herakles-Iphikles,
Idas-Lygkeus, Theseus (maybe Peirithoos was his human twin),
Kastor-Poludeukes.



(...)
> > I can't accept this theory. It's not impossible that a Herakles-
> like hero be
> > some descendant of the First Man, but I think IE myths didnt show
> such
> > super-heroic Proto-Human.
>
> Heracles was originally not human. He was a divine figure (consort
> of the Goddess), down graded to Human status when Zeus displaced him
> in Hera's bed. The Labours originally were linked originally to a
> descent and return to the underword a la Tammuz.
Many years ago, when I began to engage me in studying mythology (amateurly),
I thought in a concept of a IE God or Demigod of Physical Strength
(Herakles, Thorr, Krishna, Ogmios), but I abandoned this idea. Later,
through reading Dumezil books I accepted some of this traits on IE violent,
rageous Wind-God (Thorr, Vayu, Poseidaon).
Dumezil also pointed similarities between Herakles tale and Indian
Shishupala and Nordic Starkatherus/Starkadr: A half-monster hero, guided by
a pair of opposite deities: Thorr/Odinn, Hera/Athena, Vishnu/Shiva.


Regards, Joao