From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 5130
Date: 2000-12-20
----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 7:20 AM
>
> *Dye:us represents Law & Order while his spouse, *GWo:uXanos, represents
> Justice or rather, the Maintenance of Law & Order. This is clear by her
> jealous fits over Zeus' frequent adultery. She exacts revenge and
punishment
> to people who cross the societal line.
>
> Now, Greek myth has none other than Zeus fathering Heracles, proving that
> his birth is definitely otherworldly, and the Hindu counterpart, Indra, is
> even a _full_ god, period! Even if we pretend that he's not a dethroned
god,
> Heracles certainly ends up being one again when he marries Hebe, daughter
of
> Hera, in the afterlife after all his labours are done and his punishment
is
> over. So we know that Heracles starts out with a divine birth and ends up
> with a divine afterlife with mortal trouble and punishment in the middle.
Are there another examples out of Greece that can support your theory? Are
you sure that Herakles cycle was an IE myth? There's many traits in Herakles
of Gilgamesh tales (I Think Gilgamesh adventures influenced at least two
different heroes: Herakles and Ulysses).
> So if the God Twins are immortal and Heracles also has a divine birth and
> one of the Twins commits murder and Heracles ends up mortal and doing
> labours... what am I supposed to think? The two stories are connected
> perfectly like a jig-saw puzzle.
>
> Joao, try and picture this: *Manus and *Yemos, our accepted Horse Twins,
are
> playing around one day on one of the great branches of the Great Tree.
Then
> all of a sudden when *Yemos isn't looking, *Manus takes his bow and arrow,
> shoots his brother in the heart and then slices him up into three or more
> pieces. This is the standard IE myth about our rivaling brothers.
>
> Now tell me, Joao. Do you think *Manus should go unpunished for his crime?
I
> doubt you'd say yes. Most sane people would say, "No, fry the
> son-of-a-bitch!" and that would be the correct answer if you respect law
and
> order like the IEs obviously did. Since you seem to think that *Manus and
> Heracles aren't the same, I'm curious... why don't you tell us how *Manus
is
> sentenced by the gods if not by a loss of his immortality. How else could
he
> possibly be punished for such a serious crime? Support this convincingly
> with mythological evidence from various IE cultures. If you cannot, you
> either have to accept that IE culture supported fratricide... or....
accept
> my connection as valid.
I can't accept this theory. It's not impossible that a Herakles-like hero be
some descendant of the First Man, but I think IE myths didnt show such
super-heroic Proto-Human.
>(...)
> Another reason to expect *Xste:r is the mother of mankind is the fact that
> this creates a beautiful symmetry between the Old European goddess
aspects,
> Creatrix & Destructrix. *Xste:r is the old Creatrix and *GWo:uXanos is the
> Destructrix. *Xste:r offers mercy and forgiveness to *Manus and
*GWo:uXanos
> exacts never-ending revenge on *Manus.
You're mixing many different myths of different people to create an
artificial picture. Let's see what are the *Manus reflexes in IE people...
Greece: Minos(?), Minyas(?), Deukalion(?)
Roma: Romulus-Quirinus
Germania: Mannuz
India: Manu, Yama
Phrygia: Manes
Celts: Donn ?, Sucellos?, Gaulish "Dis Pater"
(...)
>
> >I'm interested on the "Cycle of *Manus". Did the First Mortal Man >died?
He
> >was killed?
>
> This is what I can solve through-and-through with my connections. It would
> appear *Manus was NOT killed and DID regain his immortality because the
gods
> felt that he had been punished enough by his labours. So, *GWo:uXanos'
> ceased her punishment (cf.Heracles married Hera's daughter in Greek myth).
> Take a look at Sumerian Utnapishtim (Noah). I'm sure that this is a
related
> character. He is the oldest man, the one who lived through the flood, the
> one that gained immortality. Does this ring a bell? Sounds like *Manus all
> over again doesn't it?
Maybe you re confusing IE and Sumerian myths.
> - gLeN
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>