From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 5036
Date: 2000-12-12
----- Original Message -----
From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <mcv@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Uvularisation solves EVERYTHING, teehee! Thanx, Piotr!
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:37:12 , "Glen Gordon"
> <glengordon01@...> wrote:
>
> >>I also reserve the right to have pre-PIE **q^ (> *k^) and **qw (>
> >>*kw), for reasons of symmetry and because of two cute self-discovered
> >>Nostratic etymologies which I'm reluctant to let go of (PIE *g^hesr-
> >>"hand", PSem *3as'r- "10", PKartv. *qe(l)- (Svan pl. qäl-är-) "hand,
> >>arm"; and PIE *g^en(d)h1u- "chin, jaw, cheek", PKartv. *Ga(:)c'.w-
> >>"cheek", *Ga(n)c^.- "jaw"), both with (palato-)velars in PIE for the
> >>expected uvular.
> >
> >Make a copyright if you want - I'm sure no one will steal your idea. Your
> >Nostratic etymology is very outdated and sloppy, as well as incompatible
> >with anything vaguely credible that has been done within the last quarter
of
> >the 20th century. It certainly doesn't follow the usual Nostratic
> >correspondances. You have parentheses strewn everywhere and I'm not
> >impressed. Who's giving you these correspondances? This looks like the
work
> >of Illich-Svytich. He's been dead for some time now. It's time to move
on.
> >
> >I don't see how you can seriously believe that PIE *gh = Semitic *3 nor
can
> >I see how you can support the added equation with Kartvelian *q without
> >weaving more fantastical stories together.
>
> It's quite simple. The PIE *K series (*k^/*k/*kw, *g^/*g/*gw,
> *g^h/*gh/ghw) is an amalgamation of a "Nostratic" velar *K and uvular
> *Q series. In Proto-Kartvelian, the two are distinct (*k, *k., *g and
> *q, *q., *G), except that the voiced *G (smallcap G) has merged with
> *G (gamma), the voiced fricative that goes with *x. That's why PK *G
> can match both PIE *g (*uG- ~ *yug- "yoke", *Ga(n)c.'w- ~ *gen(d)h1-
> "cheek, chin, jaw") and *h2/3 (*Gweb- ~ *Hwebh- "weave").
> Proto-Semitic has a fricative series *x *x. *3 (`ayn) which is
> atypical because it has an "emphatic" member. The PAA evidence (Orël
> & Stolbova), doubtful as it is, seems to confirm that this series
> derives from original uvular stops (**q > *x, **q. > *x., **G > *3),
> besides the true "laryngeals" *x, *G (gamma), *h and *?
>
> The correspondences would thus be (simplified, of course):
>
> PN PSem PKa PIE
> *k *k \ *k *gh
> *k. *q } *k. *k
> *g *g / *g *g
> *q *x \ *q *gh
> *q. *x. } *q. *k
> *G" *3 / *G *g
> *x *x *x *h2
> *G *G *G *h2
> *h *h *(h) *h1
> *? *? 0 *h1
>
> As to the equation PKa. voiceless aspirate = PIE voiced aspirate, PKa.
> voiceless ejective = PIE voiceless, PKa. voiced = PIE voiced (except
> in the labial series, which I don't understand), it's just something
> that follows from the data. I didn't like it at first, but I have to
> deal with it (it means that both Illich-Svitych and Bomhardt are wrong
> about the PKa - PIE correspondences). Here are the supporting
> etymologies from Klimov's Kartvelian etymological dictionary:
>
> PK *gen- make suck ; hear, learn PIE *genH- erzeugen; kennen
> PK *dwire- beam ; PIE *dru- tree
> PK *zisxl- blood ; PIE *h1esh2ngw- (**?isxngu- ?)
> PK *tel- sucking pig ; PIE *dhe(:)il- suck
> PK *tiqa- soil ; PIE *dhgh-om- earth
> PK *tkwen you (pl) ; PIE *-dhwe (?)
> PK *k.wam(l)- smoke ; PIE *kuapn-
> PK *k.reb/*k.rep- gather ; PIE *karp-
> PK *k.rk.o- acorn ; Lat. quercus oak
> PK *k.ud- tail ; Lat. cauda
> PK *m-k.erd- chest ; PIE *kerd- heart
> PK *Ldz'e milk ; PIE *m-lg- ?
> PK *s'w- drink, wet ; PIE *seu(H)-
> PK *s^w- give birth ; PIE *seu(H)-
> PK *t.ep- warm ; PIE *tep-
> PK *uG- yoke ; PIE *yug-
> PK *Ga(n)c.'w-, *Ga(n)c^.- chin, cheek, jaw ; PIE *gen(d)Hu-
> PK *Gweb- weave; PIE Hwebh-
> PK *band(G)- plait; PIE *bhendh-
> PK *k.b- bite ; PIE *kap-
> PK *omp.e- navel ; PIE *ombh-
> PK *p.er- fly ; PIE *p(^)er-
>
> How PAA corresponds to PIE-PKa is a different matter, which I haven't
> looked into yet.
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...
>
>
>
>