Re: [tied] Re: Discovery Article

May this relative closeness between Basque and "Nostratics" represent that
Basques are "Nostratic" people that adopt an older language from Pyrenean
populations?
One question: this genetic tree is made using mytocondrial DNA? I think it's
dangerous to say this or that people are descendant from this or dat
migration wave, because world people are the fusion of many migrations.
For example, my mytochondrial DNA "came" from Germany, because the mother of
the mother...of my mother was German from Pfalz-Rheinland. But I'm also have
Portuguese, Azorean, Amerindian, Italian and Belgian ancestors. So, a
genetic analysis would only find my German ancestry, and my Y-chromossome
ancestry, that is Portuguese.

Joao SL
Rio

----- Original Message -----
From: <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 12:50 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Discovery Article


> Christopher Gwinn wrote:
> > Has anyone seen this article yet? I was wondering what relevance
> some of the genetic data - specifically the genetic tree displayed -
> has to Nostratic and PIE (note the close genetic ties between the
> Basques and the Europeans).
> >
> > http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20001106/hi_hu_adam.html
>
> Thanks Chris for this.
>
> A few points that need to be added.
>
> This way of displaying a genetic tree is best conceived as though one
> were above the tree looking down on the ground. This gives the
> pattern of the branches, but it does not show you where the trunk is.
>
> Firstly it suggests that there is a very old African phase of
> splitting populations, involving Central, Southern, Khoisan and Mali.
> (The South West Branch of the tree)
>
> Secondly, there are at least three separate movements "Out of Africa".
>
> The first of these is the North West Branch, of about 75-80,000 years
> BP. This is a branch that travelled east along the shorelines (as
> mentioned in the article). The first off this branch were the Sahul
> people - Australian and New Guinean (65-70,000 BP), then Cambodian
> and lastly the Japanese, Taiwanese and Chinese. This suggests that
> Japanese has closer links to Austronesian than to Altaic (Japanese is
> often seen as a fusion of linguistic elements from these two). The
> second feature to note is that Chinese is linked in here too.
> Linguisticaly this is anomalous as Chinese is usually seen with the
> Sino-Tibetan Family as a language that developed from the Upper
> Paleolithic Ordosian culture of North China, imposed upon indigenous
> Austric peoples of the south.
>
> The second of these movements is for everyone else on the tree, and
> is probably associated with the Aurignacian cultures of 40,000 which
> left from North East Africa (hence Ethiopia and Sudan are part of
> it), and travelled out onto the Eurasian steppe through the Middle
> East. The people who split first in this wave and who travelled
> furtherest are the Amerinds (Via Malaya, Mal'ta and Denali cultures)
> (about 55,000 BP). The second most distant genetically are the "stay
> at home" Africans. The position of the Sardinians is interesting
> here. In previous posts I have suggested that they have best
> preserved the "European Upper Paleolithic Genome" , 40,000 BP(whilst
> Basque has best preserved the "European Upper Paleolithic Language").
>
> The remaining groups would seem to be the "Gravetian" Eurasian Steppe
> peoples, resulting in the Central Asian, Hunza and Indian peoples.
>
> The last out of Africa movement would seem to be the Nostratics (Afro-
> Asiatic 18,000 BP (Moroccan and Middle East) and European). The
> position of the Basque, as close to the Eropean suggests that the
> Basques have been closely genetically connected with their
> neighbouring Indo-Europeans, whilst maintaining their own linguistic
> uniqueness.
>
> So where does the "trunk" of this genetic tree attach to the ground?
>
> On a centroid analysis it would be half way along the line joining
> the Malian with the fork of the first Out of Africans (the North West
> Branch).
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
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