Re: [tied] Re: First iron swords on mass scale

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michal Milewski" <milewski@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: First iron swords on mass scale


My own pet idea is that since the 6th century BC or so the
Veneti controlled the Amber Route from the northern end of
the Adriatic via the upper Elbe to the Oder and the Baltic
coast, hence the "Tyrrhenoid" features of some N European
cultures. They may have survived on the Baltic long enough
for Germanic peoples to misapply their name to the Slavs.
The Runic alphabet has a close affinity with the North
Etruscan scripts, and especially with their Venetic
variants; perhaps the idea was borrowed by the Germani from
their Venetic neighbours somewhere north of the Alps. Of
course the Veneti were not Etruscan-speaking; their language
seems to be closely related to Italic, and they may indeed
represent the Italici who remained in their Central European
homeland (Austria, S Germany, Bohemia) when their linguistic
kinfolk invaded Italy.

The homeland of the Illyrians was more or less in modern
Croatia and Slovenia, the Glasinac culture area. The
geographic range of the Urnfield culture suggests
Proto-Italo-Venetic and Proto-Celtic peoples as its
carriers. Linguistically, Illyrian seems to be a distinct
branch of IE (if, as usually assumed, Messapic was an
Illyrian dialect).

As for the Bastarnae, their migration from Mecklenburg and
Thuringia across Poland left an archaeological signature in
the form of characteristic Jastorf culture finds. The
Poieneshti-Lukashevka culture in Moldova belongs to the same
tradition and can be attributed to the Bastarnae who settled
along the outer edge of the E Carpathians.

Piotr



Steve Woodson wrote:
>
> > It has been suggested that the 'face urns' were
Illyrian (or Bastarnae,
> > or both) when they were living north of the Carpathians,
east of the Oder.
> > Their migrations can then be followed by the spreading
south of the urns.

Michal wrote:

> The Face Urns in northern Poland appeared much later
(550-200 BC). Also, the face
> urns in Etruscan culture (c. 800-500 BC) could not precede
the Urnfield culture,
> that started about 1200 BC. I would rather say that the
Face Urns were a local
> continuation of Urnfield (Illyrian?) culture (although I'
m not sure about their
> relations with Etruscans). As for the Bastarnae, I thought
they were a German
> tribe that moved from Nothern Germany toward the
southeastern Europe (in about
> 400 BC) and settled in the Dniester valley. They probably
had many contacts with
> Urnfield people (as well as with Scythians), but does
anybody know whether any
> archeological findings are associated with their presence?