Re: [tied] PIE theogony

>
>
> >A little attempt of a PIE Theogony
> >
> >1) The primordial couple: *Yemos (Hermaphrodit Giant) and *? (Primordial
> >Cow)
>
> !! Now this is a wonderful shock! How did you come to this conclusion,
> Joao?! I was just contemplating whether the "Eve" to IE's *Manus was in

fact

> *Gwo:uXanos (aka Hera, Juno), the wife of *Dye:us! Certainly there must be

a

> female counterpart to the originator of mankind but who is she? The fact
> that *Gwo:uXanas seems to both have a motherly as well as old hag nature

to

> her suggests to me that for some reason, the two aspects of the original
> European Goddess had merged together. We would expect the "mother" to be

the

> Eve.

When I say couple I'm not necessarily saying they had a husband-wife
relation. I'm just saying that these two appear in many IE theogonies,
although in Persia we have a bull instead of a cow.

> I suppose in this way, the Sun doesn't have to give birth to two twins and

a

> girl where upon both *Manus _and_ his Eve become mortal (kinda awkward!).
> Instead, the Sun gives birth to twins, one kills the other, *Manus is
> punished to be mortal, *Manus somehow does the dandy with *Dye:us wife,
> *Gwo:uXanas, but they produce mortal children because of *Manus mortality,
> and bam! You got the human race.
>
> >2) The old generation of gods: I'm still not sure, but I think that's
> > >traits of an older generation of gods (cf. Greek Titans, Indian Rshis
>or
> >Prajapatis, cf. some Nordic Giants like Mimr or Belsta that were >more
> >"cosmogonic" than "monstruous"). Maybe this first generation >represent

the

> >sacerdotal class... They were born or from the Cow or >from the body of
> >Giant.
>
> Teehee. So far I've come to the conclusion that there were indeed
> "generations" involved in the IE creation myths just like in MiddleEastern
> belief. It would go as follows:
>
> Generation
> 1 *Da:nu "Primordial Waters"
>
> 2 *XWewi-De:ru "World Tree"
>
> 3 *Dye:us "Sky"
> *Gwo:uXanos "Grandmother Cow"
> *Wa:tnos "Lord of the Overworld"
> *nebhoses "heavens/sky nymphs(?)"
>
> 4 *PexwrGnnos "Fire-Born"
> *Xste:r "Venus"
> *Nepo:t "Lord of the Underworld"
> *wedrax "waters/water nymphs"
>
> 5 *Sxwe:l "Sun"
> *Me:n "Moon"
>
> 6 *XeryoManus "Above-Man"
> *Yemos "Lord of the Earth"
>
> 7 day of rest? the gods were out that day?
>

The 7 biblical days in PIE theogony?
The idea of sky-nymphs and water nymphs it's seducing... I think IE had a
sort of antithetical beings, represented by a class of sylphides or white
elves, aerial sprites (cf. Ljosalfar, yakshasas, kinnaras) and a class of
underground sprites or dark elves (cf. Svartalfar, subterraneous nagas). The
idea of water-sprites or water-nymphs (nixe, okeanides, nereides, aquatic
nagas, apsarasas) it's also plausible. Maybe water-nymphs linked to the
Great Serpent-River that surrrounds the Worls (cf Joermungandr & ...,
Okeanos & Okeanides, Shesha & nagas ).

> >3) Of this first generation, we have *Dyew, that had at least two >wives,
> >the sisters *DyuHni: (Nocturnal Sky Goddess, cf. Aditi and >Dione) and
> >Da:nu (?) (cf. Diti(Da:nu), mother of Danavas, and Domnu, >mother of
> >Fomoire).
>
> Or rather, *Dy:eus is the third generation, maybe? Aren't you getting
> *GWo:uXanos and *Da:nu mixed up in your reconstruction of *DyuHni:?

I;m not mixing them, but Indian Aditi have elements of both *Dyuni: and the
Holy Cow (Aditi was called Dhe:nu "cow").

> >4) Th Cow's milk originated a sea of milk (cf. India and Scandinavia).
>The
> >gods and giants churn this sea to make the "ambrosia". From the >milk

were

> >born the Vanir-like gods (just a guess!). The sea became >salty.
>
> Maybe. Certainly the Cow's milk must be an IE myth, you'd think. It exists
> in Hindu mythology too. Hmm, it was anciently connected to the "Milky"

Way.

> The question is: Is that a recent historical myth or could this derive

from

> prehistoric times?
>
> >5) The Vanir and Aesir fight, but became friends.
>
> Or maybe they fight and start up "Ragnarok".
>
> >6) The Vanir and Aesir fight the Giants.
>
> Hmmm. Dunno. I doubt but I can't comment.

Well, Vanir were accepted by the Aesir. This is surely right. In Ireland,
Tuatha de Danaan & Fir Bolg fight first, became friends and after these pact
fight the Fomoires. In Roma, romans and sabins do the same and fought the
etrusques.

>
> >I have many doubts in this scheme, so it's very provisory. For example,

The

> >Vanir are so mysterious. There's no genealogy of them, and their number

was

> >not known. We have Njoerdr and his two sons Freyr and Freyja, and

Guldru:n,

> >but we don't know their origin.
> >Are the Vanir the interbreed between Giants and Aesir?
> >Are they born from Ymir?
> >I based my analysis on the deities that sprout from Milk Sea's churning:
> >apsaras, Shri:, the Moon. holy cows and horses, the Doctor Dhanvantari,
> >etc. Maybe the Greek Pontos represented this Milk-Sea.
>
> >Dumezil considered the Twins as "vanir-like"representing the Third
> > >Function, but in my scheme they are sons of a god and a mare-changed
> > >giantess,
>
> The twins must represent the commoner caste but *XeryoManus has

connections

> with the warrior-associated underworld in order to battle the Serpent that
> Marduk/Baal was supposed to fight originally. It got transfered over to
> *XeryoManus as I said in a previous email because of the particular IE
> creation of two twins born of the Sun, giving a new reason for mortality.
> Dunno.

Definitely, I we have differents opinions about the Twins.

> - gLeN
>
>
>
>
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