From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 3914
Date: 2000-09-20
----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:47 AM
Subject: [tied] Venus and Mars
>
>
> I (gLeNny) said:
> >Sorry Arkey dude, the Ugaritic myths go back to at least 1400 BCE.
> >The myths include Athtar, Venus, son of Ashera (aka Astarte). The >Battle
> >of Mot provides a link between Athtar and Baal. This is already >at the
> >very start of any Hellenic period.
>
> Arkugal:
> >Glen Gordon, what are you talking about? What I said was that MARS had
>no
> >connection neither with the Underworld nor with VENUS. I was >speaking
> >about the Latin Deities.
>
> I'm sorry??! Do you have books where you live? Look at one, please! You
must
> have at least an encyclopaedia at home, no?
>
> If we speak solely of Roman myth then, I still don't understand your
claim.
> In Roman myth, Vulcan is the god of FIRE, metalworking and skilled
> craftwork. Vulcan liked to produce ARMOR and WEAPONS (aka WAR tools).
Vulcan
> married VENUS. Of course, Vulcan is based on Hephaestos (Greek god) but
this
> is still part of Roman myth nonetheless. Hephaestos was linked to
VULCANOES.
> What's inside vulcanoes? Lava, otherwise known as FIRE. Where does this
> firey lava reside? Under the earth (aka UNDERWORLD).
>
> Who do you think Vulcan-Hephaestos represents? Gee, well we have a direct
> connections with VENUS, FIRE, WAR and the UNDERWORLD. Who could that
> possibly be, I wonder? Could it be the god *PexwrGnnos, Fire-Born? Neah,
> that's just too simple an idea to grasp at all, isn't it? It has to be
> something more complex and obscure in order for Arkugal to respect this as
a
> valid point of view. There is no dispute here. You've lost this arguement.
>
> Second, Venus truely DID have an extramarital love affair with _Mars_, so
I
> REALLY do not know what you're babbling about but it's very misinformed at
> any rate. What I've mentioned is all Roman myth. So, what Latin deities
are
> _you_ refering to??
>
> Arkugal:
> >Now, you insist on arguing that in Semitic tradition this and that,
>etc.,
> >but that is, literally, beside the point. You assume that the IE
> > >mythologies are determinated by the Semitic ones and that's final.
>Well,
> >all your statments are good indications that the Semitic >influence is
far
> >less important than some people say. Because, in >fact, MARS and VENUS
are
> >two IE Latin Deities, and ASTARTE, and BAAL, >etc., are Semitic. That's
> >all.
>
> You are clearly dillusional if you honestly believe that the Latin deities
> are pure, native creations. They certainly derive from a proto-IE set of
> myths because of the similarities amongst other beliefs of IE speaking
> peoples.
>
> However, there are still a million and one connections between the
so-called
> proto-IE myths, which must by definition go back to around 4000 BCE or so,
> and the myths of the MiddleEast even though names of these deities will
> differ. The so-called IE *Tritos myth is clearly related to the story of
> Marduk and Tiamat (aka Baal and Yam) across the ancient MiddleEast. The
> association of a bull to the sky god as we find in IE myth is another
> MiddleEastern concept and is not originally IE. And yet, for there to have
> been a connection between IE and MiddleEastern belief, this connection
would
> have to have been pre-historic.
>
> I can bring up many direct IE-MiddleEastern connections, if you like.
There
> are certainly far too many clear connections in fact to support your
insane
> viewpoint unless you enjoy being argumentative.
>
> - gLeN
>
>
>
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