Re: [tied] Birds (was Horse words)

----- Original Message -----

From: DEFAYES MICHEL

To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Birds (was Horse words)

Dear Michel,

 

Before I comment on "capercailzie", let me remark that I also suggested a connection between "grebe" and the Welsh and Breton words for 'crest'. However, the Slavic word for 'comb [plus metaphorical extensions]' (*greb-en-) is derived from the verb root *gHrebH- (var. *skrebH-) 'scratch, comb, rake', while I've seen the Celtic word referred to *krei- 'separate'. If the latter etymology is correct (Chris, any ideas?), the Slavic items are not related to "grebe" despite the beguiling phonetic and semantic similarity.

 

"Coot" may indeed be imitative, as the coot produces a variety of calls including a resonant and querulous /kut/. The Brythonic etymology would refer to the coot's short tail; the main drawback is that the Dutch word is difficult to explain (why should the Dutch have imported it from across the Channel?). I concede that your explanation is the most economic and the most plausible one.

As for "capercailzie", the correct pronunciation is /,kap@...'keil(j)i/, not /,keip@.../, so any connection with "caper" can only be suggested by the spelling. The capercailzie's clip-clop call is rather like the sound of a horse's hoofs, so your absolute dismissal of this etymology is absolutely unjustified.

Piotr

 

 

Hi fellows,
Flawless the oft repeated etymology "horse of the wood" for the capercailzie ? What's the logic behind this "etymology" ? Absolutely none. Here is the logical explanation:
 
Gaelic Scotland.-  capar-coille, caper-coiller, cabar-coille, capull-coile; capperkayle Selkirk, caper-coille Inverness; other spellings in literature: capercaillie, capercailles, capercaile, capercayllie, capercailzie, capercaly, capercally, capercali, caperkally, cobber-kelly, capircalyeane, capricalca (!), from caper "to frisk, dance, walk affectedly, move the head up and down with a stately air", definitions that apply precisely to the bird's characteristic dance-display; other etymologies such as "horse of the wood", "branch", "old" or "clumsy" are not applicable.

English coot, Dutch koet is an imitative name.
As for grebe, the name applies to Podiceps cristatus, and is an allusion to its peculiar crest:
gr-b crested:
Breton crib, cribell crest
Gaelic: Ireland gribh Heron, 118
Albanian gribë large comb, rake
Russian greben crest
Russian grebenuška Great Crested Grebe, 66
Czech hreben crest
Czech hrebinek Hoopoe, 263
Polish grzebielucha Crested Lark, 299
Serbo-Croatian grebed, kreba Hoopoe, 263
French gr?be, guerbe Great Crested Grebe, 66
French gerbe sheaf of corn, flowers; shower of water, sparks
Basque, Béarnais garba bundle, sheaf
German garbe sheaf
German: Lübeck greber, gref Great Crested Grebe, 66
German regional greve id.
English: York. greve id.
English regional grayve, gravel-duck Red-breasted Merganser, 61 (also crested)

Michel Desfayes
Names and notes extracted from www.noms-oiseaux.org.