Re: [tied] Re: Non-IE elements in Scandinavian

A clue for Pre-Germanic people from Scandinavia could be the phonetic shifts
from Proto-Germanic to Nordic.
What phonemes were lost? What phonemes were added?
PG (Proto-Germanic) didn't have vowels o"(oe), u"(y) (French u), but Nordic
got them. So, I presume Pre-Nordic people had these sounds. Nordic didn't
have Z (voiced sibilant), and didn't have X (German ch, Spanish j).

Joao SL
Rio

----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 1:26 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Non-IE elements in Scandinavian


>
> Piotr wrote
> > The proportion of recognisable Baltic Finnic or Saami loans in
> Germanic is surprisingly small, which indeed militates against the
> possibility of the hypothetical substrate being Uralic. On the other
> hand, Finnish contains a large number (perhaps hundreds) of very
> archaic Germanic (and Baltic) loans, including hydronymic and
> maritime
> terminology -- e.g. rauma 'strait' from *strauma- 'stream, current',
> keula 'boat' < *keula- (Norwegian kjøl 'keel', OE ce:ol 'ship'),
> laiva
> 'ship' < *flauja- (Old Norse fley) -- as if various northern IE
> populations (a Germanic-speaking upper class?) had been absorbed by
> the Baltic Finnic speakers, or as if there had been Germanic trading
> posts in Finnic speaking areas at a very early date.
>
> I would agree to this. Piotr, there is a Saami site on the web (I'll
> try to dig it out) which is suggesting that the original Saami
> language was not Uralic, but that Uralic came later over a non-Uralic
> substrate.
>
> > The Ertebølle culture was Late Mesolithic, though it absorbed
> some
> Linear Pottery elements. The Ertebølle people manufactured pottery
> but
> were not farmers. However, they were certainly part of the ethnic
> substrate of the northern group of the Funnel Beaker culture, and the
> Neolithicisation of Schleswig-Holstein and S Scandinavia was a
> continuous process (via the so-called Rosenhof phase) in which the
> Mesolithic people and their culture were gradually assmilated rather
> than driven out. This would mean that the "pre-Germanic substrate"
> dates back to ca. 4350-4000 BC.
>
> Agreed.
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
>
>