Re: RELIGION: - Red /// - Indo-Europeans and Semitoids

Again Glen

> How so? I can only see a fertility link with the underworld in

association

> with Venus, the consort of Mars who is an underworld deity.

Huhh! Mars? Underword? Mars was originally a Roman god of
fertility,
Glen. Pluto and Hades were the gods of the underworld. Please get
it
right.

You continued

> I've proposed related links to Semitic religion. The association of

the

> underworld with thunder would imply the order-chaotic scheme

between
heaven

> and hell, an analogical association. The association of the _sky_

with

> thunder however would simply be a logical one based on reality and

could

> arise at any time. Which is older? As I've mentioned, there are

Semitic

> links almost as ancient as IE myth which agree with the

order-chaotic scheme

> where thunder and the underworld are connected, implying that this

is more

> ancient.

Glen, thunder was never associated with the underword, or chaos. It
was always the weapon used by weathergods, on the side of order,
against Chaos. Zeus used it against the Titans, Baal against Yam
and Mot, Enlil against Taimat.

To the question

> >Couldn't these influences flow in the opposite way, from IE to
> >Semitic?

Glen replied

> IE to Semit-ish I would think, but this language largely died out

at
around

> 5000 BCE from what I would surmise so...

Glen, there are no written records on Gods 5,000 BCE. The influences
you are speaking of come with the Magi and the fire temples in Iran
under the Medes and Persians. It is not found in the Semitic or
Middle Eastern realm before this date. Your Semitish connection here
is again imaginary.

> >Isn't ANU Sumerian? And which is the connection between *Dyeus and
> >*Ana?

Glen replied

> Maybe, can't tell precisely what his Semitic name might be. It's

not
so

> terribly important so much as the concept and structures I've

presented and

> the basic logic behind them.

Exactly, because perhaps he didn't have a Semitic name. All
associations you are drawing here come from the Sumerians, not from
some fantasy called Semitish. The Semitic equivalent of King of the
Gods was originally El, which means simply "God" (the West Semitic
version of Allah).

To

> >What about SATURN and Gwou-Xanas? Can you give further elements?

Glen replied

> Ereshkigal, perhaps.

Huh! Eresh = (Sumerian) "under, beneath"
Ki = (Sumerian) "earth"
Gal = (Sumerian) "the great"

How does Ereshkigal become Saturn and Gwou-Xanas Glen?

> >The pair MARS-VENUS belongs to the Greek Mythology -

ARES-APHRODITE,

> >while in archaic Roman Tradition there is not such pair.
>
> Also abounding in SumeroAkkadian myth.

No Glen, there is not much association of Venus with Mars in
Sumero-Akkadian myth. Dammuzi was not Mars.

To the point

> >The «pair» JUPITER-SATURN belongs as well to the Greek
> >Mythology
> >ZEUS-KRONOS
> >not to the Archaic Roman one.

Glen replied

> Check out http://piney.com/BabGlossA.html#ERESHKIGAL

Glen, I'd treat the Saturn link here on this site as highly suspect.
As the link says, Ereshkigal was never one of the Anunaki (the sky
divinities), but began as "sister" (i.e. an aspect) of Inanna.
Ereshkigal has no astrological significance in Babylonian myth.

Have a look at the following names

Planet
Mercury
Ubu-idim-gud-ud (Sumerian)
Gud-ud (Sumerian)
Gu-ad (Akkadian)
Gu-Utu (Early Babylonian)
Nebo (Chaldean)

Venus
Nindaranna (Evening star Sumerian)
Ninsianna (Evening star Akkadian)
Dilbad (Evening star Sumero-Akkadian)
Dilipat (Evening star Neo Babylonian)
Inanna (Sumerian)
Ishtar (Akkadian)

Mars
Sanumma (Sumerian)
Salbatana (Akkadian)
Nergal (Babylonian)

Jupiter
Sagna-gar (Sumerian)
Udaltar (Akkadian)
Mul-Babbar (Isin-Larsa period)
Nibiru-Marduk (Early Babylonian)
Marduk (Chaldean)

Saturn
Uduidim (Sumerian)
Ninib (Akkadian)
Genna and Sagus (later periods)

Glen please get your sources right.

Regards

John