Regarding my post
> John:
> >Much of this mythic material was pre-IE, being found throughout the
> >middle east long before the first coming of IE peoples in the
> >region. Given that the story starts with the mingling of the
waters,
> >and the emergence of land above the surface of the primeval ocean,
a
> >maritime or deltaic place of origin seems to be required.
Glen wrote
> Sigh, and this revelation only re-emphasizes my point that a
Semitoid
> mythological structure, as well as language, travelled from the
Middle East
> towards the IE homeland via the Balkans. I've got more revelations
to
> elaborate on but I'll wait till tomorrow. Must sleep.
>
> >The impact of these beliefs upon IE religion can hardly be
assessed.
>
> I think they could soon... teehee.
Great, hope you can awaken to inform us soon. :-)
> >I suspect that prior to their coming IE religion was largely
> >shamanistic, and divinities were not clearly anthropomorphic, but
> >were rather aniconic (i.e. called Thunder, Fire, Wind, Water etc),
> >not even having a gender affiliation (either masculine or
feminine).
>
> That's stretching it. I have to disagree with you here.
I find it interesting to look at when the core Indo-European mythos
that you are discussing Glen came about. Of all the Indo-European
peoples, the ones that were closest to shamanism, with the least
developed concept of the Indo-European divinities everyone has been
busily uncovering, we find the Hittites. Amongst them there is no
evidence of the many IE divine names Glen and Joao have been speaking
of. Their religion is almost wholly derivative, being linked to the
Khattic substratum, or to Hurrian borrowings (complete with the
Sumerian Enki and Anu). The only elements that seem originally
Hittite in their mismatch are their predeliction of showing Gods
surmounting sacred beasts (eg. the bull, the stag and the lion
especially). This seems to hint at a recent totemic past, typical of
a sharmanic influence.
If this is true, then I would suggest that the core IE divinities
people are talking about occurred in IE AFTER the Anatolians split
and moved south, not earlier. This is far too late for Glen's
hypothesis of the mystical Semitish, I know, but it fits the
archaeology of the middle east far better, and explains what we know
about mythological developments at the transition between the Bronze
and Iron Ages more clearly.
> >I suspect that Dumezil's three fold split occurred at the time that
> >the Sumerian influences were impacting on the PIE mythos.
>
> Approximately, yes, but not all at the same time - there were
phases. It all
> happened between 7000 BCE and 5500 BCE with two main epicenters of
> mythological interaction. More later.
If I am right, Glen, then it occurred much later than 7000 BCE and
5500 BCE as a general rule. The period 5,500 BCE is late neolithic,
at best in the Pontic realm. Chalcolithic cultures were just
appearing in the Middle East and Old European realm at this period.
Certainly in the archaeology it would seem to have been a much later
phenomenon. Don't forget it was you yourself who spoke of how
quickly mythic elements could spread through non-related cultures at
a similar social and technological level.
We must be careful when working backwards in this way how many angels
we can get to dance on the point of a pin with purely linguistic
evidence unsupported by archaeology.
Regards
John