Re: [tied] Religion

OURANOS: The dialetal forms point to WORWANOS or WORHANOS
There's the etymology *WORS-ANOS "he of the rain", as a Sky-God.
VARUNA : Can be IE *Wer- or Wel-
1) Dumezil considered Varuna from *WER- "to bind". Indeed Varuna was a
"Binder". Indeed, Ouranos "bind" his children, the Titans. Dumezil saw it as
a IE myth, mixed with some Mediterranean myth.
2) Other authors considered Varuna from *WEL-, like Lithuanian Velnias
"devil", vele "dead", ON valr "dead", Slavic Volos, Veles . So, *Welunos
would be a shapeshifting, terrible god, perhaps underworld.

Personally, I don't believe Varuna was a subterraneous god. The concept of a
Dark, Underworld God, facing the shining Sky-Father, is more a symmetrical
concept than a mythical support. Maybe it was valid only for the European
Cultures (Celts, Slavs, Germans). I think the only PIE Underworld Ruler was
the First-Man, judge of dead (Yama, Manu, Mannuz, Yima, Minos).

The Terrible Sovereign (*Weluno-, *Weruno-, *Wa:tno-), was a Dark (India),
Binding (India, Roma, Germans) God, controlling the Cosmical Order (India,
Persia, Scandinavia, Roma). He was one-eyed (Celts, Germans, Roma
"humanized" ), and he could paralyze and blind his enemies through mystical
fight, not physical fight. This god was followed by frantic beast-men or
horse-men (Berserkers, Centaurs, Gandharva). This god was an oath
protector.
Germania: *Wo:thnaz, O'dinn, Woden, Wuotan
Celts: Lugh?
Roma: Jupiter Stator, Horatius Cocles (human epical version)
Greece: Zeus?, Dionysos? Ouranos? Styx? (turned to female)
Persia: Varuna (absorbed by Ahura Mazda)
India: Varuna, Pandu (human epical version)

In many IE people this Terrible Sovereign was absorbed by the Sky-Father
*Dyeu- P@... In India, I think this god was influenced by Sumerian Ea and
acquired a water-symbolism, turning into a Sea God.
These are my points of view. I'm ready to debate.
Joao SL
Rio

----- Original Message -----
From: <ARKURGAL@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 12:43 PM
Subject: [tied] Religion


>
> Three issues:
>
>
> A) Cyril Babaev says, on his article about the IE religion, that the
Hellenic OURANOS and the Indic VARUNA were related. I've read that before,
and in fact, as far as I know, it seems a very interesting theory; however,
I have also read, more recently, that this same theory is not correct, it
was just a good but deceptive coincidence.
> Anybody knows something about the matter?
>
>
> B)Cyril Babaev also speaks, in the same article, that there is an IE root
for the name of the Subterreanean Deity, this root is *Wel-. He also notes
that this same root may as well be cognated with the IE conception of
«Lord». Both observations are very interesting, because one of the most
well-known Deities in Iberia - more specifically, in the western part of
it, that is why this Divinity is usually considered as «Lusitanian» - is
ENDOVELICO - variants: ENOBOLICO, ENDOVOLICO, INDOVELICO - and there always
have been a lot of discussion about the meaning of this theonym and,
consequently, about the meaning of this God. Some interpretations,
ere: - Celtic intensive particle ND + GWELL (Brithonic word for
> «Good»): ENDOVELICO would be «The Very Good One», perhaps similar to
DAGDA (DAGO, «Good» + DEVOS, «God») - in fact, ENDOVELICO was considered,
based on several aspects, as an Hispanic counterpart of the Gaulish >
SUCELLOS, which could be a kind of continental DAGDA;
>
> - Celtic intensive particle ND + BELTZ (Basque word for «Black»):
ENDOVELICO would thus be «The Very Black One» which would match with the
chtonic elements of his cult;
>
> - Western IE root *WELI- with the meaning of «Will», common to Illyrian,
Celtic and Latin (Volens), which would be quite convenient to explain some
inscriptions dedicated to ENDOVELICO where there are mentions to His
«Divine Will» and to His «Will from Below» - «Ex Imperato Averno».
> This God is chtonic and use to give «advices» for cures through oracular
dreams, probably. That is why He was cognated with ASCLEPIOS
>
>
> C) Cyril Babaev consider that animals were perhaps the first teophany.
But, was the Sky-Father ever considered as an animal, or half-animal
half-human?
>
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>
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