Re: [tied] Re: Dumezil, Trito and Athena: MY IE main Gods

1) *Pexwr-Genos can't explain Fjo"rgynn. Fjo"rgynn <*Perkunos
2) I don't believe *Eryomon = *Manus.

3) Those are my opinions about main PIE Gods (The PIE names are arbitrary)

*DYE:U "Sky-Father, All-Father" < Zeus, Jupiter, Odinn, Dyau/Kashyapa>
*DYU:NI: "Sky-Mother, All-Mother <Dione, Juno, Aditi, Frigg> { In my
opinion there's no Earth-Heaven couple in PIE mythology - this concept was
later influence of Sumerian/Western Asia mythology}
their children:
*PERKUNOS/PERAUNOS "Thunder-God" <Zeus,Jupiter, Thorr (Odinn), Indra,
Perunu>

*WA:TNOS "Terrible Sovereign, one-eyed; Master of Beast-men" <Zeus, Jupiter
Stator, Varuna, Odinn, Lugh>
*MITROS "Peacemaker, one-handed; Justice and law" <Zeus(Apollon), Mitra,
Tyr, Nuada>

*ERYOMEN "Protector of Community; Weddings, Births" <Aryaman, Balder,
Eleuthia (female), Juventas(female)>
*BHAGOS "Destiny, Blind" <Bhaga, Ho"dr, Terminus>

*RUDROS "God of vengeance, Health and Pestilence" <Rudra, Apollon, Vali>
*WISNUS "Savior of Gods; Giant; Space" <Vishnu, Vidarr, Herakles/Briareos,
Vidarr, Lugh>

*EGNIS "Fire; trickster; multiform" <Agni, Loki, Prometheus
(Hermes,Hephaistos)>
*WE:YUS "Wind; violent; horse-bringer, super-strength" <Vayu, Poseidaon,
Thorr>

*LA:TRI: "The Night Goddess" <Ra:tri, Leto (Nyx)>
*AUSO:S "The Dawn Goddess" <Mater Matuta, Eos, Ushas, *Austron->
*SWEL "Sun, all-seeing, all-hearing" <Surya, Sol, Apollon (Helios),
Heimdallr (!) >

Other gods I can't deduce the relationship:
*APOM NEPOT "The Child of Waters; Master of Subterraneous Waters" <Apam
Napat, Neptunus, Poseidaon, Mimir>
*? "God of Time; First to Born, first to die <Heimdallr, Bhishma, Lugh,
Akhiles (epic doublet), Diana>
Three *ALBHEWES "The Heavenly Artisans <Kyklopes, Rbhus, Goibniu and 2
brothers; Ivaldir's children>
*? "Bright God, three-legged, magic ship, flying horse, master of air elves"
<Freyr, Manawyddan, Manannan, Kubera>
*? "Dark God, giant; Underworld, master of subterraneous elves" <Surtur,
Bran, Ravana>
*? "God who lose his head; wise " <Mimir, Bran, Daksha/Ganesha>
*LOUKSNA "THe Moon (female or male? androgynous?), Triple Goddess?" <Selene,
Artemis, Luna, Durga>
*WRTA:S" "The three Old Women, Fate" <Parcae(Vorta), Moirai, Nornir(Urd),
Three-folded Durga?, Badb?, Rozhenitsa>

I want to know about your opinions...


Joao SL
Rio

----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 12:51 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Dumezil, Trito and Athena: mystery solved the gLeN way


> Glen I like it. As a hypothesis it is great!
>
> The three gods now relate to the "triune goddess" which is found in
> IE as cognates in earlier posts of Danu (Dianna, Dione, Djana, Danu
> etc) She could be a goddess of fresh waters (To Nepos's salt) hence
> the river names. This underground chthonic nature explains the human
> sacrifices to Rivers and springs throughout Celto-Germanic Europe and
> explains Diana of the Nemi Fountain, the story with which Frazer
> began the "Golden Bough"
>
> Congratulations
>
> John
>
> The astral goddess too would need a name (could it be aspects of
> Brigit?), as would the Goddess to the god of "Middle Earth"
>
> --- In cybalist@egroups.com, "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...> wrote:
> >
> > While others do their battles, Loki lurks in the darkness waiting
> for the
> > perfect moment to pounce:
> >
> > >Is it so very far Piotr? Final t's were dropped both in Greek and
> in >Late
> > >(New Kingdom) Egyptian. A prothetic vowel or contamination from
> >the
> > >obviously related Semitic Anat could provide an explanation of the
> >initial
> > >a. So we have a possible ath-a-nei-.
> >
> > Erh, I think none of these hypotheses so far are likely to be so.
> Therefore,
> > in the cloud of confusion, I shall put forth my own silly thoughts
> which I
> > just devised last night after drinking a couple of shooters and
> passing out.
> > I'll keep it brief.
> >
> > Tripartition needs a change
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > First, let's reorganize Dumezil's funny-looking tripartition
> triangle thingy
> > into a prettier "tree"-like diagram, shall we?
> >
> > CASTE REALM/ELEMENT
> > OVERWORLD priest sky
> >
> > MIDDLEWORLD commoner earth
> >
> > UNDERWORLD warrior water
> >
> >
> > Okay, everybody get it so far? We have a first layer of "elements"
> with a
> > second layer superimposed, suggesting some sort of post-mesolithic
> social
> > organisation. Let's further this diagram by pretending that these
> above
> > items are in fact "deified" into IE personifications. We can go
> nuts with
> > this one!...
> >
> >
> > OVERWORLD Xedhnos Dye:u-Pxte:r
> >
> > MIDDLEWORLD XWeryo-Manus Yemos
> >
> > UNDERWORLD Pexwr-Genos Da:nu-Nepo:t
> >
> >
> > Everybody happy-happy now? Everything is explained! :)
> >
> > This way we can plainly see that *Dye:us is Jupiter-Thor-Tiw-
> Dyaus "the
> > sky"; *Yemos is Ymir-Yama "the earth" and *Nepo:t is Nechtain-
> Neptune-Apam
> > "the sea". These are the elements/realms of IE world-view. There is
> a reason
> > why *Yemos is also the "god of the dead". The dead, when buried,
> can be said
> > to be "given to *Yemos".
> >
> > As for THE CASTES, we first see my new and precious reconstruction
> *Xedhnos
> > portrayed by Athena-Odin who are both conveniently "wise warriors"
> who make
> > eight-legged creatures subservient to them(Arachne/Seipnir). How
> does
> > everybody feel about the sound correspondances? You like? *Xedhnos'
> wisdom
> > makes him a fine candidate as a god of the priest caste.
> >
> > *Pexwr-Genos "Fire-Born" is the Thunder god represented by
> > Ares-Vulcan-Parjanya-Fjo"rgyn. An association
> between "thunder/storm" and
> > "the sea" now makes more sense, n'est-ce pas? It also makes sense
> why he
> > should get involved with Venus, I think. He represents the warrior
> caste. He
> > might be born of fire in the sense that thunder is born of
> lightning, since
> > the sound follows the flash.
> >
> > Finally, *XWeryo-Manus "Highmost Man" is the first human being. He
> slayed
> > his brother *Yemos to create the earth. He is represented by
> > Ariomanus-Aryaman-Airem. It is _him_ who is the originator of
> mankind, not
> > *Yemos who definitely gets sliced and diced. He is also a god of
> the
> > commoner caste (Roman Quirinus?).
> >
> >
> > War of the Functions
> > --------------------
> >
> > Not convinced yet? Well, the War of the Functions (aka the
> Apocalypse) makes
> > waaaay more sense now. Instead of two functions fighting against
> poor
> > defenseless commoners. We have all three!
> >
> > "Huh?" you say? Well, has anybody ever noticed how Loki starts the
> ball
> > rolling here? But who is Loki? He should be appropriately renamed
> Little
> > Fire (*HegWnis) as in Indic Agni. There are few places where a
> pyromaniac
> > can get his jollies. He can't do it in the air and he can't do it
> in the
> > water. Fire only really exists in the Middleworld (well, except for
> the sun,
> > but ignore that). Therefore, Little Fire represents the earth
> who "fires up"
> > the sky and the waters to join him in his war against humankind.
> >
> > Hence, all three elements are battling against us... and isn't that
> what
> > human perseverence is all about in the end?
> >
> >
> > Trito
> > -----
> >
> > Oh, and I almost forgot my promise, Joao. According to Mallory,
> *Trito is a
> > herder who lost his cattle to a three-headed monster (possibly a
> serpent).
> > He then regained his cattle with the help of the god of war. *Trito
> is
> > represented through Vedic "Trita Aptya", Avestan "Thraetaona
> Athwya", Greek
> > "Heracles", Norse "Hymir" and Hittite "Hupasiya". I suspect that
> the name
> > itself might not be properly reconstructed in IE, but I digress.
> >
> > - gLeN
> >
> >
>