Re: [tied] Re: Siret, Prut and other such rivers.

From: Pavel Iosad
Message: 3121
Date: 2000-08-14

 
 > Coincidentally, I'm off to Transcarpathian Ruthenia (Uzhorod via Kosice in Slovakia) on family vacation in a couple of month's time.
 
 > I'm been doing some linguistic preparation so I have some hope of communicating when I get there. Slovakian friends seem to regard East Slovakia as the middle of  
> nowhere,  populated by hated Romanies and where where strange and incomprehensible dialects of Slovakian are spoken. In the same way, Ukrainians seem to view South West  
> 
Ukraine as being populatd by simpletons who speak bizarre dialects of Ukrainian.  
 
Not quite. Western Ukarine (around L'viv) presents some quite standard dialects of Ukrainian, which are hardly understood in the rest of the country due to the fact that most people speak Russian or the so-called "surzhik" - a mixture of Ukrainian rural dialects and Russian.
 
> So I really don't know what to expect. Will I find:
 
 > 1. A sharp delineation at the border, with (more or less) standard Slovakian spoken one side and Ukrainian the other?
 
 > 2. Widespread multilingualism, with Slovakian / Polish / Ukrainian / Hungarian / Romany being understood over a broad area?
 
 > 3. A continuum of language dialects, becoming more Slovakian to the West, more Polish to the North and more Ukrainian to the East? 
 
Yes. 
 
 > 4. An array of monolingual Polish / Slovakian / Ukrainian / Hungarian villages scattered more or less randomly in the border area?
 
 > 5. Dialects of Slovakian / Ukrainian that I don't understand on account of numerous loan words from Hungarian / Romany?
 
 > 6. Some other combination?
 
 > If nobody from cybalist knows, I'll discover the answer and tell you when I return! 
Regards,
Pavel 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
To: cybalist@egroups.com <cybalist@egroups.com>
Date: 12 August 2000 00:06
Subject: Re: [tied] Siret, Prut and other such rivers.

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 11:36 PM
Subject: [tied] Siret, Prut and other such rivers.
 

I've copied these entries from the MS Encarta Encyclopedia for your benefit:

Dniester or Dnestr (ancient Tyras or Danastris; Romanian Nistru; Russian Dniester; Ukrainian Dnister), river, western Ukraine and eastern Moldova, 1400 km (870 mi) long. The Dniester rises in the Carpathian Mountains, near Drohobych in Ukraine, and flows in a generally southeastern direction, partly along the eastern boundary of Moldova, and empties into the Black Sea, near Odesa (Odessa). The broad estuary of the river comprises several arms that form a marshy lagoon, called the Dnistrovs’kiyy Lyman. The average width of the river is 152 to 229 m (500 to 750 ft); the maximum width is about 427 m (about 1400 ft). For about 70 days of winter, a large part of the Dniester is frozen. [Less relevant details snipped out.]

Prut, also Pruth or Prutul, river, southwestern Ukraine, western Moldova, and eastern Romania; a major tributary of the Danube River. It rises in the Carpathian Mountains in southwestern Ukraine and flows generally in a southeastern direction for 909 km (565 600 mi). The Prut enters the Danube near Galati, Romania. For most of its course, the river forms the boundary between Moldova and Romania. It is navigable for 320 km (200 mi) above the Danube.

Siret [also Seret -- P.], important Romanian river that rises in the Carpathian Mountains. The Siret River flows southward for over 465 km (290 mi) along the eastern margin of the mountains, and enters the Danube near the city of Galati. The river has carved a broad valley into the Moldavian Plateau, which is followed by the railroad from Bucharest to Chernivtsi in Ukraine. Much of the timber cut in the mountains is floated down the Siret River to Galati for processing and shipment.

Let me add that the valleys of the Prut and the Siret are broad and easy to follow, and the rivers flow across the hilly Moldavian Plateau (which rises up to 593 m above sea level) rather than real mountains. The Prut does rise in a pretty high range of the Carpathians and is a typical mountain river in its upper course, but you needn't start at the headwaters: near Chernivtsi (Ukraine) the three rivers run so close to one another that "changing conveyors" there is very easy (the valley of the River San in SE Poland is similarly connected with that of the Dniester). They don't take you straight to the Middle Danube, though. The Prut and the Siret enter Danube just above its marshy delta. This area is one of the pivots of European prehistory: the border between the Balkan and the North Pontic regions.

Vlad the Impaler was indeed active nearby. The literary legend makes Dracula a Transylvanian count -- incorrectly, as Transylvania is located inland, behind the rocky curve of the East Carpathians. The historical Vlad spent some time there as an exile, securing himself the friendship of the Hungarian leader János Hunyadi, but he was properly the Hospodar of lowland Walachia like his father Vlad the Devil (Dracul) before him.

Piotr

 
This is my first acquaintance with the Siret River. All I've found on the web are references to it, but no map clearly locates it. The Bug and Prut I know about, tho' not how easily they allow travel into the Middle Danube region.
 
All these rivers seem to lead north to Bukovina and Transcarpathian Ruthenia (the territories Stalin took from Romania and Slovakia). I gather this is also Vlad Tepes' old stomping ground. What maps I do have show mountains, and I have visions of a very romantic 19th century print showing gorges and waterfalls -- not something you think of as an easy passage into the Middle Danube, but apparently, yes it is.
 
Mark.