Re: [tied] Re: Gimbutas.

----- Original Message -----

From: John Croft

To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 11:41 AM

Subject: [tied] Re: Gimbutas.

John,

 

Thanks for your kind review.

>Certainly there was neolithicisation of pre-existing mesolithic
peoples in the gap between Starcevo and LP (or LBK Danubian 1 - its
usual designation).  Unfortunately for your thesis Piotr, it is
generally assumed there was another "Neolithicisation" of
pre-existing mesolithic peoples between Tripolye and Srendny Stog cultures (the former derived from the Dug-Dneistr/Don-Donetz culture).  Getting IE into the Steppe here seems to be the biggest problem (not
insurmountable but a problem).

 

I mentioned the early Trans-Caucasian influences manifesting themselves in the North Pontic region. The Bug-Dniester and Dnieper-Donetz cultures are currently seen as Mesolithic foragers who adopted elements of the Körös and Linear Pottery cultures but did not undergo full Neolithicisation.

 

I assume any not-quite-Neolithic cultures in that area were easily absorbed by the IEs, though I agree a more detailed description of the process should be offered, especially as regards the formation of pastoralist cultures. At any rate, the penetration of the "pure" Linear Pottery culture from SE Poland down the Dniester and into the Prut/Siret "Mesopotamia" is very well documented. I envisage some mixing of IE-derived and Proto-Starchevo cultural traits in the Tripolye region, with the older West Pontic elements gradually receding. Perhaps the Proto-Hellenes began to absorb non-IE vocabulary as early as that.

 

>One advantage - it would suggest that the Anatolian derived Starcevo
Neolithic is Tyrrhenian (and that Tyrrhenians came out of Anatolia)
and that Glen's Semitish (if they exist) had less distance to travel.

 

My scenario assumes that up to about 5500 BC (the Black Sea event?) the pre-PIEs and Proto-Tyrrhenians lived close to each other west of the Black Sea (hence the similarities due either to early convergence or to their hypothetical genetic relationship). If anyone wants to identify Starchevo as *the* Proto-Tyrrhenian culture, it's fine as far as I'm concerned. The Starchevo/Körös complex is no doubt the result of cultural influence radiating from Anatolia (at a time when there was still a landbridge where the Bosporus is now!), but I don't feel qualified to arbitrate between you and Glen as regards the more remote ethnic and linguistic history of the Starchevo people.

 

Piotr