Re: [tied] Formal and Informal 2nd Person

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 2956
Date: 2000-08-03

Ye/you began to be used as a courteous form of address in Middle English in imitation of French politeness (tu vs. vous). I think vos was used as a polite form already in late Latin (originally to address the Emperor), though I've got no references at hand. English usage remained rather inconsistent for several hundred years, until thou/thee went out of ordinary use altogether. Look how Thomas Malory (15th c.) switched from the one to the other form of address (and back) within a single utterance (for the sake of elegant variation?):
 
Sythen [=since] I haue made yow knygte, thow must yeve [=give] me a gyfte ... thou shalt promyse me by the feythe of thy body whan thou hast justed [=jousted] with the knyght, that ryght so ye shal come.
 
In Polish, wy (pl.) can be used as a polite counterpart of ty (sg.) in conservative rural dialects; it also used to be the official form of address between Communist Party members (thus causing some embarrassment when used in an informal situation); also when an ancient-rĂ©gime policeman accosted a citizen in the street, he would often use the "polite" wy, which didn't sound particularly courteous in that ominous setting. The normal form of polite address in Polish is pan (m.)/pani (f.), used with the 3sg. of the verb. It functions like a honorific pronoun, but apart from that it's also an ordinary noun meaning 'lord/lady', 'Mr./Mrs.' and the like.
 
Piotr
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: David James
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 12:35 AM
Subject: [tied] Formal and Informal 2nd Person

Why do so many western Eupopean languages have both formal and
informal forms of the 2nd person and am I correct in believing that
they are relatively recent phenomena; from the last five or six
hundred years perhaps? Did they develop as a result of social change
for instance the rise of a landlord class? I sure that Latin did not
distinguish between formal and informal address. Also are formal and
informal forms found in Slavic, Indic languages as well? Enough
questions for now I look forward to your replies.
David James