Re: [tied] Re: IE, AA, Nostratic and Ringo

Very informative Dennis!!

--- Dennis Poulter <dpoulter@...> wrote:

> We are usually told that "everything began with the Greeks" - they
> invented science, philosophy, architecture, mathematics, art, etc.
> I've even heard this at university. During my university studies (I
> studied the history of ideas) the influence on Greek philosophy and
> science from Egypt or other countries was hardly mentioned. But if
> most of the Greek words for these activities are borrowed, then the
> picture changes considerably. The Greeks must have been much more
> dependent on other cultures than what is widely known. Does anyone
> here know more about this - from whom did the Greeks borrow this?
> Could you give any specific examples of words and concepts being
> borrowed?

[...]

What university was it? The legend that the Greeks and Romans invented
what we call "Western Civilization" -- and civilization in general --
is a sign that you were the victim of a "conservative" school. It's a
reaction to "political correctness" among "liberal" school which often
seems to border on europhobic, so I was wondering.

My opinion about "civilization" as we know it is that it radiated from
lower Mesopotamia to Egypt, Ethiopia (via Arabia), Europe (via the
Balkans and Transcaucasia), Central Asia, India. (I'm not sure about
an "Out of Africa" viewpoint either.)

Again, this is opinion.

> Another place to get an idea of the storm this has created is "The
> Afrocentric Debate" at http://www.jps.net/kabalen/afro.htm
> However this site doesn't seem to be working yet, the original
> address was : http://www.he.net/~skyeagle/afro.htm

Yeah, sadly the links were dead. But let me try some more. The gopher
site worked though! (I saved it and I'll read it later.)

> So, to briefly answer your question "from whom?" - the Egyptians
> and the Semitic-speaking Levantine cities.
> Some specific examples :
> 1. Toponyms

> Thebes Eg. d_b3t temple, shrine; d_b3
> wicker float; Sem. te:bah ark, chest

This one I cannot accept. Egyptian (and Afro-Asiatic including
Semitic) <d_> had the value of /dZ/, which is too different from Greek
/th/.

> Sparta/Sardis Eg. sp(3)(t) distrinct (nome) and its
> capital

That one is possible, since according to what I've read about AA,
Egyptian /3/ (of course the _ayn_ sound) is cognate with Semitic /r/.

> Mycenae Sem. makHaneh camp, resting place

Hmm... could go either way really...

> Larissa Eg. r-3Ht Entry to Fertile
> Land

Egyptian /r/ (and /n/) ~ Semitic /l/.

The other examples you gave opened my mind a bit. Much more to study,
but there are some clear possiblilites here.

(Ironically, the term Semitic does come from the Semitic word for
"name".)

> 2. Divine, Semi-Divine and Legendary Figures

Bear in mind that the ancient religions of Greecs and Rome are
derivative of Sumerian and Egyptian. (The Father-Mother-Son tritheos
have roots in either or both places, as does worship of the Sun.)

> 3. Weaponry and Trade Goods
> harma chariot and tackle Sem. Hrm net

Chariot and tackle from "net"?

> While members of this list may not agree with some or all of these,
> there are no accepted IE etymologies for any of these words (AFAIK),
> so I think there is a case here to be investigated more fully.
> Futhermore, this can be investigated as it is citing languages that
> are well known, rather than having recourse to unknown
> Asianic/Mediterranean languages.

I agree with about 75% of these, personally. If there are borrowings,
then irregularities of phonetic correspondences are permitted, since it
depends a lot on when the word was borrowed. If Egyptian-Semitic and
Greek words have a common origin (I won't use the "N-word"), then you
have to be stricter on comparison.

Again, my opinion. Please tell us more!

DaW.

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