Re: [tied] Re: IE, AA, Nostratic and Ringo

----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 July, 2000 3:55 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: IE, AA, Nostratic and Ringo

John,
I think we can now conclude this discussion. When you write :

> 4. Whatever the linguistic situation was in the Aegean at the period
> we are talking of, it was probably reflective of a similar diversity
> (if not greater) than that found in pre-Roman History (witness the
> discussions on linguistic diversity in prehistoric times we have been
> having on list recently).

This is exactly my thinking. I've not been arguing for a Semitic substratum.
I basically think that the whole notion of linguistic homogeneity across
Anatolia, Greece, the Aegean and perhaps into the Balkans in neolithic times
is a priori highly unlikely, and then to project that homogeneity into a
time when it could have influenced Greek even more unlikely.
Further, that neither "pre-Greek", Greek toponymy, "-assos/-inthos", nor the
Linear scripts provide any support for such a hypothesis.

This was why I questioned whether your two examples of Eteocretan were in
fact the same language. They certainly don't look the same. There were
several distinct cultures on Crete in pre-Minoan times, so is it not
reasonable to conclude there were several distinct languages? So perhaps the
inscription is not in the language of Linear A.

Notwithstanding, here's an attempt at the first sample :
santi kuppap waya yaya minti tekakali.
rearranged as :
Snt (a name?) kappa pw iyyaya man ittakkal (or min ittikaali)
Snt sent me after him/to him/there as someone he could trust (or as his
representative)
rendered as Arabic :
Snt qaffaa bihi ?iyyaya man ittakal
It's probably way off target, but it does have a vaguely Semitic look about
it (as opposed to the second sample).

I still however stand by my argument about a Semitic/Egyptian adstratum, and
that Greece and Crete, as is shown from the distribution of Mycenean
pottery, were part of the Egypto-Levantine economic and cultural sphere.

As regards the Hyksos, while I haven't read the book you cite, I do know
that modern scholarship tends to downplay the idea of invasion. I don't know
that I agree, since there seems to be a Hurrian element in the Hyksos and
Hyksos period art seems to include elements from all over the Middle East up
to southern Anatolia. Some of the Hyksos pharoahs' names are also difficult
to explain in purely Semitic terms. But whatever the truth of it, there is
still a case that can be argued for a Hyksos invasion of Crete at the end of
MMII (destruction of all three palace, introduction of new artistic motifs
with Syro-Palestinian parallels in MMIII) and for colonisation in Greece
(shaft grave goods, the name of Mycenae, and the legends of Danaos and
Kadmos).

Cheers
Dennis