Piotr:
>Let's stick with *b as the time-honoured standard spelling
Soytainly.
>Actually, I think it might strengthen your case for a pre-PIE loss of
> >*p��� if the gap could be shown to have undergone PARTIAL patching
> >during the interval between that loss and the disintegration of PIE. This
>is what should realistically be expected: not complete absence, [...]
>like English /��/,
Watch it. I can't read your phonetic symbols. I get the jist though of what
you're saying and I accept this idea (if any clear examples should ever show
up of *b).
> And *(s)amlu is...? And what's this optional *s? Talking of
> >illusions, "alim ~ samlu" doesn't look too good. With so much >metathetic
>freedom you might just as well add lemon as a cognate ;) .
Ah, Piotr. A skeptic to the end. That's why I love you. You're the perfect
devil's advocate :) The *s- is seen in Anatolian languages and I presume
that the phenomenon is related to the optional *s- found elsewhere in IE
verbs, not to mention the Semitish loan *(s)teuros "bull" (Semitic *Tawru
with initial dental fricative).
Searching the LinguistList.org archives for the IE List, I got McCallister's
etymology. On the Nostratic List was a post on this topic as well regarding
G&I's proposal. Here's a synthesis of the viewpoints (including my own)
presented so far between the Nostratic and IE lists:
*(s)amlu- "apple, fruit"
Germanic *ap(a)laz
OE aeppel; OHG apful
Celtic
OIr uball, Welsh afal
Italic
Oscan Abella "apple town"
Balto-Slavic
O Sl abl�ko; OCS jabl'ko; Lith. �buolas
Anatolian *sam(a)la-
Hitt. samaluwanza "apple tree", Palaic samluwa-
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal states March 8, 1999 on the LinguistList.org
Nostratic List:
"Gamqrelidze & Ivanov reconstruct PIE *s^amlu-, with *s^, which,
according to them, gives zero outside of Anatolian (sakuwa ~
*okw- "eye", sankui- ~ *onogh- "nail, claw")."
Now, I'm not sure about this new *s^ phoneme that goes zero but if we
reconstruct *(s)amlu-, at least, things are less speculative. I'd like to
know where this word was borrowed from too. Semitish **Tamlu:, perhaps?
Buddha only knows.
- gLeN
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com