Re: [cybalist] Re: Hamp and his dog

I would like to comment on a few of the bird names names:

"English: Shetl. hoarse-gowk, horse-gowk Snipe"

This isn't English at all but an old Norse word for Snipe, Swedish
(dialectal) horsgök, Gotlandic russgauk, Icelandic hrossagaukr, Danish
horsegög. They all mean "horse-cuckoo" and refer to the neighing sound
heard from the male in display flight. It is not onomatopoetic but
descriptive. Other dialectal names are Swedish (dial.) märrgök
(mare-cuckoo) and Danish (dial.) hingstefugl (stallionbird). In some places
people thought it sounded more like a goat: Swedish (dial) himmelsget
(sky-goat), vårget (spring-goat) or a sheep: Swedish (dial.) kvällsgimra
(evening-sheep)!

Many of the other bird names listed aren't onomatopoetic at all e. g.:

"French reg. ducass Eagle Owl"

On the other hand the names for the Eagle Owl in most other European
languages *are* indeed onomatopoetic:

German: Uhu
Spanish: Búho
Portuguese: Bufo
Hungarian: Uhu
Norwegian: Hubro
Svedish: Uv
Finnish. Huuhkaja
Dutch: Oehoe

There is even an obsolete French onomatopoetic name for it: Hibou Grand-duc.

Nobody would ever have thought that the Eagle Owl´s call sounded anything
like d-k, nor the Bittern for that matter.

Many bird names are indeed onomatopoetic, but to decide if this is so one
must both know how the species in question sounds and also the original
form of the name, since onomatopoetic names will change like other words,
sometimes until they are almost unrecognizable, e. g.

Old Swedish ramm "raven" from *kraba(n)-
Swedish råka "rook" from *krog-
Swedish häger "heron" from *kraikr- (heron comes from the same root, but by
way of OHG and French)
Swedish tärna "tern" from *thirn-

The starred forms in these cases are fair approximations for the calls of
the birds in question, which the current forms aren't.

Tommy Tyrberg

At 19:37 2000-05-07 +0200, you wrote:

>In the course of this discussion on kuo:n, no body has ever bothered to ask:
>what is the characteristic of a dog ? All animals are named after one of
>their characters, or sometimes their function. The main characteristic of a
>dog is that it is noisy and most names, dialectal or other, refer to this
>character. Thus the Greek name should belong to a base of acoustic origin,
>in this case k-n, s-n (dog, noisy birds or other animals):
>
>English to sound
>English hound a dog trained to pursue game (while barking); to excite a dog,
>to harass without respite
>English chinting-hound Black-headed Gull
>German hund dog
>Latvian sunit invectivate
>Latvian suns dog
>Armenian Sun id.
>Sanskrit sun id.
>Kafir çuna id.
>Latvian ku?a id.
>Anc.Greek kyon id.
>French: Foug?res cun mauvais chien, FEW 20: 7
>French reg. künar chien, FEW 20: 7
>French reg. cunaud jeune chien, FEW 22: 8
>Anc.Greek kónabos sonorous noise
>Russian kon horse
>Russian konek Tree Pipit (neighing song)
>Polish konik Tree Pipit
>Serbo-Croatian konjska sova Tawny Owl
>Serbo-Croatian konjarica et var. Tree Pipit
>Ukrainian kanjux Tawny Owl
>Czech konicek Black-headed Gull
>Russian kanyt Turkey
>Russian kanjucit to neigh
>Serbo-Croatian kanja (Sorabian id.) Green Woodpecker
>Serbo-Croatian kanja Curlew
>Slavic kanja Black Kite; Buzzard
>French cagne chien "femelle"
>Romanian câine dog
>Romanian câine-tâtâresc Lapwing
>Romanian câina to bark
>Albanian qen dog
>French chien dog
>(etc.)
>
>Other animal names:
>k-t
>English cat a domestic animal (meows); a woman given to malicious gossip;
>tackle used in hoisting an anchor
>English catboat a boat having one mast (see catamaran, hereunder)
>English cat-gull Black-headed Gull
>Spanish: Amer. cata, catita (widspread from Mexico to Argentina) parrot
>Galician cata interjection: Spanish ojalá
>French: Saugues cata Buzzard
>French: Gévaudan cato Kestrel
>French: Norm. cateau Magpie
>French: I.Maurice cateau parrot
>French: Calv. catacouâ Hooded Crow
>English chat chattering
>English chatterpie Magpie
>Italian: Piem. ciattar?n et var. Corn Bunting
>Romanian chiot loud call
>Polish kytaika Brambling
>English kitty chat; Black-headed Gull
>English kittiwake Kittywake
>
>k-ts (cat, birds that meow)
>German katze cat
>German reg. katzenadler Buzzard
>German reg. tunkatz Whitethroat
>German reg. katzawedl Whitethroat
>Romanian catâ strident call; backbiter; Guineafowl; chatter of the Magpie
>Romanian reg. cîtâ Guineafowl
>Romanian câtâi to chirp, to cackle, to chatter
>Romanian câtâcarâ Magpie
>Romanian ratâ câtârâtoare Goldeneye,
>
>h-rs
>English hoarse raucous, harsh
>English horse animal that emits a hoarse call
>English horse-thrush Mistle Thrush
>English: Ireland horse-ouzel Ring Ouzel
>English horse-lark Corn Bunting
>English: Scotland arse hen, arseen (for hoarse hen) Corncrake
>English: Ireland horse-gull Gull
>English horse-finch Greenfinch
>English: Shetl. horse-sparrow Starling
>English: Shetl. hoarse-gowk, horse-gowk Snipe
>
>d-k
>Lithuanian dukas Bittern
>French reg. ducass Eagle Owl
>Sanskrit dyuka owl
>Serbo-Croatian doktati to sing (Capercaillie)
>Polish dukacz to crow
>Gaelic: Ireland diucain to moan
>Italian dugo (Catalan id.) Eagle Owl
>French reg. dógo Turkey
>English dog a domestic animal (barking is one of its main characteristics)
>
>(these are only a few terms from a very long list)
>(diacritic marks not shown)
>
>
>
>
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