Re: [cybalist] Why does Glen keep getting me wrong?

Gosh Glen,
I'm really not a knowledgable person about what you and John are
debating and the only access I have to any information is the Alekseev
Manuscript (be it known that some of Alekseev's info is debatable) but
here goes for what it's worth.



Glen Gordon wrote:

>
> Oops, there seems to be another message from John.
>
> I think that I keep getting you wrong because you _are_ wrong. I would take
> some of your arguements a little more seriously if you could at least spell
> the language names correctly and show good understanding of the topic at
> hand. A letter misplaced here or there is tolerable but take a look at this:
>
> >The Yugit people (speaking Chuchki, [...]
>
> ERROR #1: ...speaking _Chukchi_...

Gerry: Sorry Glen: Alekseev states that the Chukchi people are located
on the Chukot Peninsula and that the Chukchi are also known as Chukchee,
Chookchiel Chukcie, (and IMO Chukchi)

> >Samoyedic (Khanty, Mansi) is intermediate and the Finno-Ungaric
>
> ERROR #2: Finno-Ugric, not "-Ungaric".

Gerry here: Please explain the difference between Finno-Ugric and
Finno-Ungaric. IMO, both seem to represent the same language group;
same people too.

> ERROR #3: Khanty and Mansi are Finno-Ugric:Ugric:Ob-Ugric. They
> are NOT Samoyedic at all but closer to Hungarian.

Gerry: According to HOLLIS, Khanty and Mansi are Hyperborean (Arctic
People). As per Arutiunov they are Finno Ugric. And Arutiunov concurs
that Samoyeds are Uralic along with Yukaghir.

> These painful errors could have been avoided even by searching the internet
> that you're using right now:
>
> http://www.ut.ee/Ural/ingl.html
>
> The more well-known Samoyedic languages are Nenets, Enets and Selkup.
> Languages that you're too lazy to learn about.

Gerry: Perhaps. But Arutiunov identifies Samoyedic as consisting of 1)
North Samodic = Entsy, Nenets, Nganassan; 2) South Samodic = Selkup and
other extinct languages.

>
> >Thus, Yukaghir is a language which
> >is furtherest removed from the later Uralic languages,
>
> ERROR #4: Look, you goof. Yukaghir isn't a Uralic language. It's a
> Uralic-Yukaghir language, distinct from Uralic. Common
> knowledge.
>

Gerry: Sorry Glen. Arutiunov claims that Yukaghir is Uralic along with
Finno Ugric. HOLLIS lists 4 subdivisions of Uralic: Finno Ugric, Proto
Uralic, Samoyedic and Yukaghir.

> >There is clear evidence of PIE borrowings in Uralic.
>
> ERROR #5: IndoIranian -> Finno-Ugric. The spread of IndoIranian to
> the east and FinnoUgric to the south created such
> conditions. This has also been discussed
> already on the list. Any PIE-Uralic interborrowings are
> hardly clear, especially based on what little Aikio
> came up with.
>
> ...And I fully understand your position on your "Semetic" (<- ERROR #6).
> These errors not only show how embarassingly little you know about
> linguistics but they also illustrate how uninterested you are at educating
> yourself properly. There are just too many informed sites illustrating the
> basic relationships within Uralic to be so daftly ignorant.
>
> I think I'll choose to discontinue this inane discussion.
>
> - gLeN

Gerry: Hope the information from Alekseev and Arutiunov help.

Gerry