Re: [cybalist] Linguistic Mathematics?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Reinhart-Waller" <waluk@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [cybalist] Linguistic Mathematics?

Gerry,

Joking apart: what Scythians and Sarmatians had in common
was steppe nomadism and the fact that they were speakers of
North Iranian dialects. The Scythians had been subdued by
and partly assimilated into the Sarmatians by the 3rd/2nd
century BC. That was the end of their hegemony in the Pontic
steppes, but not of their historical career. There was still
a Scythian state in the Crimea, and in the 2nd century BC
some Scythians tribes invaded the Parthian Empire, Bactria,
Afghanistan and finally northern India, remaining there for
five centuries or so. I bet John Croft will be able to tell
you more about this episode.

Both "Scythian" and "Sarmatians" are actually conventional
designations for large leagues of Iranian tribes (possibly
with a substantial admixture of non-Iranians). Among those
known as Sarmatian were the Alani, Roxolani and Iazyges.
Apart from dominating the north Pontic region they colonised
Pannonia, settling on the very doorstep of the Roman Empire.

In the third century the Pontic Sarmatians were partly
overpowered by the Goths, who had arrived from Poland; a
little later the remaining ones were driven westwards by the
Huns. Some of the Sarmatians sought refuge under the
dominion of Rome in the Danubian provinces (Iranian speech
communities lingered on in Hungary until the beginning of
the 15th century), or allied themselves with various
Germanic groups in their raids across Europe (and even into
northern Africa with the Vandals). Some of the Alani
wandered eastwards; they settled in Caucasia and their
dialect (Alanian) gave rise to modern Ossetic, the only
extant North Iranian language. Ossetic, though strongly
influenced by various non-Iranian languages, is the key to
the analysis of whatever fragmentary documentation we have
of Scythian and Sarmatian vocabulary. You could say that
Ossetians are latterday Sarmatians.

Piotr

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Gerry wrote:

You're correct Glen. Samaritans are totally different from
Sarmatians.
Celts are now thought to have been Scythians. I'm quite
sure that
Samaritans could have been Scythians. Perhaps Samaritans
were also
Sarmatians. But my original question was whether Sarmatians
were later
(oops, there it is) or latter day Scythians?

Gerry ;-)

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