From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 2024
Date: 2000-04-03
----- Original Message -----From: Sergejus TarasovasSent: Monday, April 03, 2000 9:53 AMSubject: RE: [cybalist] Odp: NordwestblockSergei writes:I'm lookimg forward to your posting on the Goth problem, and my two cents here is the note that both the Slavs and the Balts (at least those survived) show a strong consistency in rendering this LATE common name: both of them attest common *gudas. And both of them were may be the most familiar with the EARLY Goths.
Of course the Balts and (especially) the Proto-Slavs found themselves temporarily within the sphere of Gothic dominance and the impact of Gothic culture on them is reflected in numerous indisputably Gothic loans. Nevertheless, I find it difficult to accept the claim that Baltic and Slavic guda- represents the Goths' ethnonym, even if it is an authentic borrowing from Gothic. I'd sooner believe in a connection with gud- (guþ, m. 'god', n. pl. guda '[heathen] deities'; gudja weak m. 'priest'). I also regard popular etymologies like Gdańsk < *gudan-isk- 'Gothic' as extremely shaky, not to say naive, though superficially beguiling.The Germanic languages and the earliest Greek and Latin sources agree that the general term for the various tribes classified as "Gothic" was *gutan- (an n-stem). Strabo has *Gutones (i.e. Gk. *Goútones, misspelt as Boútones), Pliny Gutones, Tacitus hesitates between Gotones and Gothones, while Ptolemy has Gythones. Later Greek sources call them Gotthoi, which becomes Latin Gothi or Gothae. I'll give you my opinion about the origin of the TH spellings in a moment. Let me first note that the Old English word for a Goth was Gota (pl. Gotan), an n-stem is confirmed by Old Icelandic Gotna (gen. pl.) and even by (runic) Gothic gutani (on the ring of Pietroassa). There's no d anywhere except in the alleged Baltic & Slavic reflexes. I'm pretty certain that when a Terwing or a Griuting wished to call himself a Goth, he said "Guta" (Gutan- when inflected) rather than "Guda".I don't intend to discuss here in detail the oft-cited (if inevitably speculative) etymological links with Gotland and Götland, with the Scandinavian Gauts (Gautar = OE Geatas, Beowulf's countrymen), and further with the (Gothic) verbs giutan 'pour', us-gutnan 'flow away', since such issues don't contribute much to the question if *guda- = 'Goth'. If anybody on the list is willing to offer an opinion on these connections (we've got some experts on things Scandinavian, haven't we?), I'll be happy if they start a new thread. It's only worth noting here that the adjective meaning 'Gothic' was probably derived directly from the root *gut- (*gut-isk-, as in *gutisk-andi- 'the Goths' End' = the "Gothiskandza" or "Gothiskandia" of later tradition, i.e. the area of early Gothic settlement in northern Poland.*Gut- without weak-noun inflections also appears in the compound 'Goth-folk', *gut-þiuda, attested in OIcel. Gotþioð > assimilated Goðþioð. This compound, misanalysed by ancient historians, is likely to be the ultimate source of Gotth-oi, Gothi, etc. The TH form may have contaminated Gutones/Gotones as well.This is what I have to say on the Gothic question, but if you have some strong evidence to support *guda-, I'll be delighted to see it. Of course you were absolutely right about late Latin Goth- being too problematic to serve as a good example of TH for Germanic þ. Thanks for making me rethink this issue.Piotr