Glen wrote in reply to my post
> >[...] In the last 90,000 years there have been three human
> >movements out of Africa
> >
> >60-80,000 BCE - the movement that took Australians and Indo Pacifics
>to
> >South East Asia and Australia
> >
> >30-40,000 BCE - the movement that took Aurignacian Homo Sapiens
> >(Cro-Magnon's) from North East Africa, through Palestine to the
> >Eurasian Steppes (the probable origin of Dene Caucasian)
> >
> >15-8,500 BCE - the movement that took the microlithic-mesolithic
> >cultures from North Africa to the Eurasian forests (the probable
>origin of
> >Nostratic)
(Glen)
> So you're talking about DeneAsiatic, DeneCaucasian and Nostratic
movements
> OUT of Africa... I don't know... Must think, my head is groggy today.
Does this mean at long last that we are getting a bit of light at the
end of the tunnel? Glen, this is EXACTLY what I am saying - three out
of Africa waves.
As for my point
> >And why would a Dene Caucasian language, move from a cold
> >temperate climate (the Ice Age Middle East) into the tropics?
(Glen again)
> Because it's nice and warm. Do you know how cold it is here in
Winnipeg. I
> can understand those DeneCaucasian lot. But sigh, you are starting to
make
> logical sense and it's scaring me. I'll think about all this...
During the Ice Ages population densities were highest in Africa (where
biotic and faunal productivity was highest), less in the temperate
climates and lowest on steppe and tundra (where climates were coldest
and most marginal). Population movements always tend to move from
highest populations (where people are closest to exceeding the
environmental carrying capacity) to lowest. Favourable environments
tend to inhabited first, more marginal environments taken up last (and
only after the more favourable niches have been already "filled".
Thus the first wave out of Africa moved East, into Sundaland (also
tropical as the Indian Biome Realm had most similarity to the African
one).
The second wave came out of Africa, couldn't move East (as it was
already occupied by hunter gatherers), and moved North onto the
Eurasian Steppe (your Dene Caucasians). This group is the Aurignacian
and Gravetian cultures that introduced sophisticated cultures into the
area of Neaderthals.
The third wave came out of Africa with the warming of climates. They
had cultures pre-adapted to warmer climates, and followed their
climates northward. These were the Nostratics.
Glen wrote
> But sigh, you are starting to make
> logical sense and it's scaring me. I'll think about all this...
No need to be scared Glen. It makes logical sense because it is
thoroughly confimed, not just by linguistic evidence (which you have so
thoroughly provided), but also by (sigh) genetic and cultural evidence
too. As I keep saying, languages tend to move when people move too.
Although we would find little evidence of English genes in Ghana, for
instance, it was the movement of Englishmen, Empire and Industrial
technology - out of England and to Ghana that introduced the language
there. Thus while language movement does not indicate necessarily a
movement of peoples, it does indicate a contact with peoples had
occurred.
There was no much trade into Africa until the neolithic. So in the
absence of movements of people and of trade contacts, my question
remains - in the absence of movements from the Near East into Africa
for trade, religion, culture or population, how did the Dene Caucasian
Niger-Kordofanian language, and later the non-Semitic Afro-Asiatic
languages get into Africa *before the neolithic*. The evidence all
suggests waves of movements out of Africa, so why couldn't languages
move out of Africa too? Especially when we find evidence for NK and AA
languages already esconsed in Africa for at least 25,000 and 15,000
years respectively. So given all this evidence how did NK and AA get
into Africa - was it by magic perhaps?
Hope this helps you overcome being scared by logic.
Regards
John