"John Croft" <
jdcroft@...> says, parenthetically:
>(like the loss of Norman French in a sea of Anglo Saxon).
Not picking on John, nor Mark who made the "Norman French"
reference earlier on this list, but I wish to make a peripheral point of
historical order: "Norman French" is an oxymoron..albeit a very common one
in scholarly circles, particularly, for some inexplicable reason: English
ones. There was little French associated with the men of William in 1066,
and very few Franks. Therefore, there is no real mystery to the loss in a
sea of Anglo Saxon. (And Mark's earlier point of a French substrata in
English..in my view, is a much earlier contribution and in no way related to
Hastings; and perhaps merely a common older substrata to both modern
languages..unless the event at Hastings just opened up exchange between the
isles and the continent for later linguistic intrusion..but I favor the
former.)
The French state boarders did not coalesce until the 15th century, so it
is not even "politically correct". Norman Franks? No. The Norman state
was intrusive into the Frankish state..the collapsing remnants of
Charlemaign's post Roman creation. The Frankish state ceded by treaty the
Norman lands to intrusive Nordics (who chased off the autochthons, keeping
only females of choice.) (911: Treaty of St. Clair-sur-Epte; between Charles
III and Rollo). This granted Rollo, a Viking, the lands around the mouth of
the Seine and the present city of Rouen. Norman means Northman> Norsemen.
In 1066, most of William's men still spoke Danish, with some Angle, Saxon,
Norwegian, Icelandic, Norn and other polyglot groups thrown in (probably to
include some Gaelic speakers from the Scots coast, including my Danish/Celt
ancestors in Easter Ross?). The only Franks being small groups Rollo's
successors had gained hegemony over as they re-spread west into what became
"Normandy". None of them had any problem finding interpreters across the
channel either. That's why we all don't key in French on the
internet :-). Alliances from outside the Norman sphere are of course known
in support of William, but their post battle influence was limited. The
strongest of these came from the North: remember that Harold was forced to
stop Sigurdson at York on 25 Sept, while William was in Pevensey Bay on the
28th. Therefore, if modified, lest we are discussing post 15th century
"French from Normandy, in which case Norman would be wrong..It is either
just "Norman"....or maybe.."Norman Vikings" (Hmm..consider Hastings as the
last and largest Viking raid:-)
La Revedere;
Rex H. McTyeire
Bucharest, Romania
<
rexbo@...>