Re: Odp: Carniola et al.

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 1077
Date: 2000-01-23

 
----- Original Message -----
From: Simona Klemencic
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 9:37 PM
Subject: [cybalist] Re: Carniola et al.





Piotr:
I think both Carniola and Carinthia (as well as the Carnic Alps) took their 
names from the same Celtic group -- the Carni. Do you know anything about 
that, Simona and Maximilian?

Simona:
I wrote about this before. Most linguists think that both names derive from 
a Substratum word for stone, rock - *kar-. Pokorny thinks that the name 
Carinthia (sln. Koroska, also Karantanija - points to a nasal) might also be 
of a pie. origin - the root he considers is *kar- 'hard'> *kar-k-. There's 
also a Celtic interpretation, if you want it: Celtic *carantos 'friend'. 
Would you find this convincing?
Actually, I don't know this "Carni" interpretation. Do you remember your 
source?
This quotation is from Britannica.com:
 
Ancient tradition held the Veneti to be an Illyrian people who, coming from the east, took possession of the region named for them (Venetia). To them are linked the Histri, the Carni, and various Alpine tribes. (The name of the Veneti, or its root, is widely diffused in the ethnic onomastics of central Europe and even of Asia.) The Venetic language is known from funerary and votive inscriptions, from words cited by the Classical writers, and from onomastic and toponomastic data. It is an Indo-European language of Archaic type bearing similarities to the Latin and the Germanic.
 
It makes the Carni a Venetic people as well as classifying the Veneti as Illyrians -- the usual Adriatic mishmash. I don't think a linguist's opinion had been sought. In a Polish encyclopedia I've consulted the Carni are mentioned as a Celtic tribe inhabiting ancient Carinthia. In another book I have (about ancient piratical practices on the Mediterranean) the name of the Carni can be seen on a map of Illyrian tribes to the northwest of the Histri, more or less where Italian Carnia (in Friuli) is now -- on the southern slopes of the Carnic Alps (Carinthia is on the northern side of the range). No source is given for the map; I suspect the Carni may have been mentioned by Polubius but I can't check it at the moment.
 
Carnia, Kärnten (Carinthia), Carniola (Kranjsko < *Karn-Isk-o) -- the similarity just can't be coincidental. *Karn- strikes me as a very plausible Celtic name, especially in view of the fact that ancient Noricum was stuffed full of Celtic peoples. Somebody must have investigated these things but I'm not aware of any particular sources. I thought you or Maximilian might know something; it's your part of Europe.
 
Piotr