From: tgpedersen
Message: 16435
Date: 2002-10-19
> --- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:<teru> "3"
> > --- In cybalist@..., Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <mcv@...> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:31:47 -0000, tgpedersen@... wrote:
> > >
> > > [stuff about Austronesian, or was it Austric?]
> > >
> > > While I don't believe a word of this whole Oppenheimer-Manansala
> > > stuff, it's still interesting to note that in 1840, Franz Bopp,
> one
> > of
> > > the fathers of Indo-European studies (although pre-
> Junggrammatiker)
> > > published an article where he advocated a (genetic) relationship
> > > between Indo-European and Malayo-Polynesian. I have never read
> > that,
> > > so I cannot say exactly what his idea was based on, but one can
> make
> > > an educated guess that the numerals had something to do with it.
> > > Austronesian forms such as <duwa> "2" (PAN *dewsa) and
> > (PANwas
> > > *telu) certainly strike the imagination, and Bopp thought he
> onSanskrit
> > to
> > > something, just like he (justly) thought to be on to something
> when
> > he
> > > noted (as one of the first) the similarities between the
> > and(Georgian
> > > Greek, Latin, Persian and Germanic conjugation systems.
> > >
> >
> > "Six" and "seven" are borrowed (presumably) from AfroAsiatic to
> > IndoEuropean and also to Etruscan (sa, semph), Basque
> > (sei, zazpi) and Kartvelian (ekvsi, shvidi ). They seem alway to
> > follow each other. Because of some IE reflexes of "six" that
> > don't seem to have the initial s- (Old Prussian, some Iranian
> > languages), that part of the root is sometimes left optional; this
> > also makes it easier to reconcile the root with Kartvelian
> > /ekwsi/.prefix"
> > Which gave me this idea: Suppose s- is some kind of "number
> > *se- in whichever was the original language of six and seven?be
> (Basque
> > would have it double, *se-pi- > *spi-, prefix now unrecognizable,
> so
> > it's added again: *se-spi-.) And seven, without the prefix would
> > *pitu-, which, voila!, is "seven" in nearly all Austronesianforms
> languages
> > (Proto-Austronesian *pitu?).
> >
> > http://www.zompist.com/anes.htm
> >
>
> Starting with prefix-less 6 and 7, namely
>
> -ekW-, -p-t-
>
> or, if we start fronm the AfroAsiatic (but not universally so!)
>In Bopp's original article he compares for "six"
> -t- , -p-t-
>
> let's follow a suggestion Miguel made some time back and look for
> them south of the Sahara. Perhaps, if s- is really a prefix, we can
> find those numerals there, possibly with other prefixes.
>
> http://www.zompist.com/niger.htm
>
> Niger - Congo
>
> 6 7
> Southwestern Mande
>
> Loko ngohita ngofela
> Loma doseta dofera
> Mende wéita wófela
> Bandi woita ngofera
>
>
> Eastern Mande
>
> Bisa soddi saapra
> Busa sûdó sûfla
> Samo Toma soro soba
>
>
> Northern Mande
>
> Senegal
> 5 6 7
> Fulani (Fula) jow- joweego'o joweed`id`-
> Maasina joyi jeegon jed`d`i
>
> Interesting that the prefix means "five". Perhaps s- once did too.
>
> In the same languages, the numbers
> 2 3,
> Fulani (Fula) d`id`- tat-
> Maasina d`id`i tati
>
> look like the reduplicated form of the corresponding Austronesian
> numerals. The Fulani, I've read somewhere in popular anthropology
> stuff, think of themselves as a people apart from their neighbors,
> cf. also the link I provided earlier of SE Asian back migration to
> Africa, approx the same area.
>
> "six" and "seven" are the numerals a people who can count up to a
> full hand need to take in astronomy.
>
>