Re: [tied] Re: Satem shift

From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 8039
Date: 2001-07-22

In Satem languages  *kWa *kWo > *ka *ko and *kWe *kWi > *c^e *c^i
Although Greek is not a Satem it has *kWa *kWo > pa po &  *kWe *kWi >te ti
This t<kW+palatal must came <*c^ ?
Aeolic dialects don't do this change, keeping kW>p in all cases.
 PIE *penkWe > Proto-Greek *penc^e > Greek pente ?
PIE *gWHermos > c^Hermos > thermos?
----- Original Message -----
From: Piotr Gasiorowski
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Satem shift

According to sociolinguistically minded scholars like William Labov (who has studied many an ongoing sound change and measured its progress), sound change is typically initiated as a gradual transformation of the phonetic features of a phoneme without regard to lexical or grammatical factors (thus displaying mechanical "Neogrammarian" regularity). It usually occurs below the level of social awareness (and so is "imperceptible"). In its later stages, however, sound change often develops a social significance and spreads by lexical and social diffusion -- word by word and speaker by speaker, prone to lexical, grammatical and socio-stylistic conditioning. It is no longer imperceptible, may affect salient distinctive features simultaneously and consist in abrupt phonemic replacement. Lexical diffusion often fails to affects all the target words and leaves messy exceptions even in the long run.
 
What you call shibbolethisation is possible at that late stage. What I mean is that no-one ever starts a sound change deliberately, but a change in full swing creates forms that may be utilised as a means of social bonding and regarded as prestigious or deprecated. There may have been a time when pre-Proto-Indo-Iranians who still labialised their /kW/'s were scorned by their neighbours. "For Diwos sake, what do you mean by speaking like that? Did you hear him, lads? He said [k_W_etwores], like a bloody Proto-Greek. [kWetwores], would you believe it? He's a refayned person. He thinks he's smarter than us Aryas."
 
Piotr
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:10 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Satem shift

So, I hear: a linguistic development dividing two languages, rules
leaving a few stragglers behind...
I wonder if the shibbolethisation mechanism I proposed

http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/Shibbolethisation.html

might come in handy to explain the centum/satem thing?

 

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