--- "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...>
wrote:

> i18n@... wrote:
> >
> > Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The way it notates final consonants has no
> > > bearing on its typology. Kana also indicate the
> > > final consonant with a special character, but
> > > that doesn't keep them from being syllabaries.
> >
> > Wondering - is that evidence of how the writing
> > system evolved from the spoken language? The sound
> > represented by the "final consonant" entry in
> > kana does in fact have the same "vocal length"
> > quality as the other
>
> called "mora"
>
> > entries, even though it is an exception to the CV
> > rule of the kana table organization.
> >
> > So, is it safe to say that the writing system (in
> > Japanese at least) is subordinate to the spoken
> > language?
>
> Where is it not?
>
> > I mean, given that either the spoken can/could
> > have changed to allow the writing system to be
> > exception free, or the writing system can reflect
> > the spoken sounds at the cost of having exceptions
> > in the CV table layout, what can we infer from the
> > historical choices/evolution in this matter? Does
> > it vary by language/writing system pairs?
>
> ? Since the vast majority of humans have never been
> literate, it would be quite difficult for a writing
> system to have any but the slightest effect on its
> language.

In very modern times spoken English has been affected
by written English when formerly literary terms have
crossed in the vernacular etc. Pronunciation
misanalysed from spelling has happened a few times.
The British/Australian way of saying "herb" with the
"h" pronounced springs to mind.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the persistent
Chinese view of their own language(s) as monosyllabic
despite bisyllabic words now being the norm, would be
another case of written language exerting pressure on
the spoken language or at least on how the spoken
language is thought about.

Of course literacy rates in English and Chinese are
have both been pretty high.

But I would put this under the "slightest affect"
category and agree totally with Mr Daniels.

Andrew Dunbar.

> --
> Peter T. Daniels
> grammatim@...
>

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