From: Peter T. Daniels
Message: 4873
Date: 2005-04-24
>Yes, that's Bright's definition of "alphasyllabary."
> --- In qalam@yahoogroups.com, "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...> wrote:
> > suzmccarth wrote:
> >
> > > The interest for me in Taylor's work is in providing an historical
> > > context for teaching method of Hangul. For some people it is
> > > definitely an abstract alphabet but for others possibly an
> > > alphasyllabary.
> >
> > Under what possible definition of "alphasyllabary" does Hangul qualify?
> > (See WWS p. 4 n. *, and also Bill Bright's article published both in an
> > early issue of *Written Language and Literacy* and in the King Sejong
> > number of *Studies in the Linguistic Sciences* (Urbana).)
>
> A. According to Kuipers (
> http://home.gwu.edu/~kuipers/kuipers%20insular%20seasia%20scripts.pdf ):
>
> The Indic scripts of Insular Southeast Asia are similar to what
> Bright calls an alphasyllabary. He defines these as scripts in
> which "each consonant-vowel sequence is a unit, called an aksara,
> [and] in which the vowel symbol functions as an obligatory
> diacritic to the consonant" (Bright 1996).
> [I apologise if this is a duplicate post. I was asked to confirm mySproat has overlooked the distinction between "alphasyllabary" (formal)
> password when I posted before, and did not get the usual message that
> my posting had been sent.]
>
> B. Richard Sproat ( http://compling.ai.uiuc.edu/rws/newindex/indic.pdf
> )interprets this as, 'They are alphasyllabic scripts (Bright, 1996a)
> (though Daniels (1996) prefers the term abugida), meaning that they
> are basically segmental in that almost all segments are represented in
> the script, yet the fundamental organizing principle of the script is
> the (orthographic) syllable'.
> C. alphasyllabary: two levels of structural unit representingObviously, Constable has invented his own definition for
> phonemes and syllables (prototypical example: Hangul) (Peter
> Constable, quoted by Suzanne in
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qalam/message/2783 )
>
> Obviously hangul qualifes as an alphasyllabary under definition C :)
> Have I missed something in these quotes? Neither (A) nor (B) requiresAnd, if you look at Bill's context, for him too. When we moved out of
> an implicit/inherent vowel, which Peter Daniels sees as an essential
> feature of an abugida.
> Where does Hangul fail to meet these definitions? The firstThe sole defining feature of an abugida is the inherent vowel. Bill
> possibility is having CVC in a syllable. Does this disqualify
> Devanagari when homorganic nasals are written using anusvara? One
> then has distinct consonant, (vowel), consonant elements! I think
> not. But perhaps CVC is only to be permitted as an atypical construction.
>
> The old Dai Lanna script is an abiguda, as far as I can make out.
> However, it has plenty of CVC syllables - consonants can be subjoined
> to the /aa/ dependent vowel, which is written on the right of the
> consonant, though in many cases it is not immediately clear whether
> one is reading CVC or CCV - one has to use one's knowledge of the
> phonotactics of the language, including whether a word is [+Pali] or
> [-Pali], which affects the spelling. Dai Lanna does have some
> pathological CVCV syllables - I've just seen <bya:dhi> (Indic-based
> transliteration) laid out as <b><subscript y><dependent aa><subscript
> dh><dependent i>, though the word is probably just two syllables - /pa
> yaat/ (tones omitted through ignorance) with first vowel anaptyctic (<
> Pali _bya:dhi_ or Pali & Sanskrit _vya:dhi_). The dependent i is
> written as a superscript to the dependent aa, as though the dependent
> aa were a consonant! A more typical CVCV case is <baimaa>, laid out
> in 3 columns as <dependent ai, written to the left><b><subscript
> m><dependent aa>.
>
> One might object that an alphasyllabary should preferentially
> partition CVCCV as CV-CCV. In that case Thai fails, for it partitions
> as CV-C-CV, e.g. <ma.n.do> (short for _Ma.n.d.oda:ri:_, name of
> Ravanna's widow in the Ramayana), laid out as <m><.n><o><.d> -
> CV-C-CV, rather than *<m><o><.n><.d>, the CV-CCV analysis.
>
> So, unless not all abugidas are alphasyllabaries, by what criterion
> does Hangul fail to be an alphasyllabary?