Ph. D. wrote:

>
> Peter T. Daniels skribis:
> >
> > Ph. D. wrote:
> > >
> > > Peter T. Daniels skribis:

[Some time last year, it appears, since the referenced message isn't in
my 2005 inbox]

> > > > Do you have a display of them? It sounds like a somewhat
> > > > unCherokee notion. Or did you use Sequoyah's handwritten
> > > > forms? I remember Zapf's as Optima-like, with very subtle
> > > > shadings, but the one place I've seen them was in a very
> > > > expensive book (and it didn't include the entire syllabary).
> > >
> > > Actually Zapf's forms have fairly long serifs, so maybe not
> > > so much like Optima. You probably saw them in the book
> > > _Hermann_Zapf_and_his_Design_Philosophy_ published
> > > in 1987 by the Society of Typographic Arts in Chicago (on
> > > page 201). I paid fifty dollars for my copy when it was first
> > > published which didn't seem too expensive to me.
> >
> > How many books sold for $50 in 1987? That's like saying
> > $50,000 was not an excessive price for a Mercedes-Benz.
>
> Well, "very expensive" is in the eye of the beholder, but fifty
> dollars then would be about eight dollars today for a book with
> a page size of 30x20 cm, 250 pages, and one hundred full color
> plates. On the other hand, _The_World's_Writing_Systems_
> was priced by the publisher in 1996 at $125 which would be
> $144 today for a book with a page size of 23x16 cm, 900 pages,
> and no color illustrations. I suppose it's apples and oranges,
> but would you describe WWS as "very expensive" or even
> "excessive"?

I'm afraid I can't follow your currency conversions, but yes, WWS was
priced exorbitantly, and OUP has often put it into their seasonal sales
at $50, which seems about right. The list price is now $170 I think, and
amazon was charging $200.75 when the list price was $160.

> > The "serifs" are integral, distinctive parts of the characters, so they
> > have to be there (and thus shouldn't be considered serifs).
>
> For some characters, they are integral parts. For others, they are not.
> I have uploaded a scan from Zapf's book here:
> http://www.marlboromats.com/Cherokee.jpg
>
> > > I believe the man who commisioned this font was Walter
> > > Hamady, a private press operator in Wisconsin.
> >
> > So why did he never use it for anything, or allow anyone else to
> > use it?
>
> I wrote to Hamady a month ago, but I have received no reply. I wrote
> to Paul Duensing, who used to operate a private typefoundry. He is
> good friends with Hermann Zapf and cut the matrices for Zapf's
> last metal typeface (Zapf Civilité). His reply:
>
> ) The history of the Cherokee font is pretty much as follows.
> ) Hamady submits an application for funding to commission a
> ) special font for printing a number of legends in that language in
> ) a bi-lingual edition. Prof. Zapf agreed to design the font (based
> ) on Walbaum). In due course the drawings were received, I made
> ) patterns, cut a few matrices and made casts, proofs of which I
> ) shipped to Walter and Hermann. Then the project sort of came
> ) apart and nothing further was done with it. In the past six or ten
> ) years, various requests were received (mostly from graduate
> ) students in typography whose instructors needed a diploma
> ) project). I contacted Hermann who said in effect "I have no further
> ) traffic with the Sequoia project." then contacted Walter who said
> ) "did they pay for it?" So the project ground to a halt.
> ) That's about it. Zapf won't move on it without Hamady's
> ) permission, and Walter doesn't want to give away what he sees
> ) as his property.
>
> Zapf is 86 years old. Hamady is probably about the same. Perhaps
> their heirs will agree to do something with it. It's the best looking
> Cherokee font I've seen.

So the font exists in hot type, and could legally be digitized in the US
(since, the last I heard, font designs are not copyrightable here).
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...