From: Andrew Dunbar
Message: 2450
Date: 2004-06-08
> <hippietrail@...> wrote:I agree with the other poster that this is just an
> > > 3. Then I have to explain what "complex" means.
> > > I must make this meaningful... so I could say
> > > that (besides the bidi scripts, we understand
> > > those) there are writing systems that are
> > > linear but not sequenced by sound production.
> > > These systems are normally arranged intoPerhaps you've misunderstood me. I wasn't questioning
> > > syllable blocks when they are taught to
> > > children on paper but on the computer they are
> > > not composed in syllable blocks.
> >
> > I'm not sure about "normally". If you say it's
> > the case with Tamil I believe you, but Tamil is
> > quite a bit different to its related writing
> > systems and I don't know if they have a pedagogic
> > syllabic model.
>
> They do, I have seen it in the children's hands, on
> my bulletin board, seen it in books and on the
> interent and read about it but I have never been in
> a Tamil elementary school classroom so I have to be
> cautious.
> > I understand what you are saying. But it seems youYou are confusing your technologies again. Truetype
> > don't know how such a system would work yourself.
>
> Okay, I have tried 5 Tamil keyboards. The
> Tamilword98 keyboards, 3 different layouts, were
> truetype, I think, nothing changes shape or order.
> The one that was mapped closely to the sounds of the
> English alphabet was the easiest because we didn't
> have a keyboard map.
> Then, because we wanted to do internet searches II do not understand what you mean by "transliteration
> bought a windows XP laptop. I had to be compatible
> with my PC classroom for reports, website, etc. I
> installed the Tamil language support and keyboard.
> I could use it with the student and we did some
> simple searches. However, he could not use it
> himself. Since then I have tried the
> transliteration unicode system that I saw in an
> email site.
> It seemed to be fairly easy.I don't think you've mentioned a split-screen system
> So in order of ease for a somewhat bilingual child -
> the romanized truetype keyboard, then the
> transliteration split-screen system, then the
> others.
> The Chinese students use several of the ChineseI'm thinking that the reason it's easy for the Chinese
> IME's and work on the laptop everyday. Or in
> njstar98. A couple of students have come very
> recently from Central China and they love to
> write their story in Chinese then get a classmate
> to translate it then I post the stories in both
> languages and they read each others stories or email
> or google funny and interesting sites, comics,
> anime, neopets, etc.
> > It seems you are trying to convince us of theYou'll notice that for Arabic and Korean, the letters
> > need - which is probably true - but if you want a
> > better input system, just come up with one then
> > present it.
> > Uniscribe has nothing at all to do with input -
> > for input you need either a keyboard layout, or
> > an input method.
>
> So, I think that the keyboard layout is difficult,
> but also the rendering is a little tricky because
> kids don't like letters that change shape, but i
> guess they could learn.
> Then the fact that the syllables can never beFor Japanese, Korean, and many of the Chinese input
> displayed or chosen as syllables, precomposed
> blocks, all that , I am not sure what is most
> important.
> So I bought winXP, thinking that because the IME'sProbably not. But don't blame Microsoft or the evil
> in CKJ offered a good choice, the Tamil should be
> okay too.
> Is there a different Unicode Tamil keyboard?
> > > If there is no argument with this kind ofWell it probably is possible to devise an input method
> > > vocabulay I will go with it. I must add that we
> > > have technology curriculum goals that start in
> > > grade 1. This is not a hypothetical discussion
> > > for me.
> >
> > Worry less about the vocabulary
>
> since I dropped the 'alphabet', 'syllabary' words it
> is easier to communicate
>
> > but do learn the difference between input,
> > rendering, fonts, encodings, etc. Interact with
> > the kids and try to visualize an input system.
>
> i know the difference when I see it happen on the
> screen but it is hard to disentangle the effects at
> first.
>
> I think, somehow that coordination between visual
> image and order of sound production (and keyboard
> input) is fundamental in learning literacy. That
> is one of the ways a child learns to be literate.
> The image of the sound in the mind has to match the
> visual image somehow. If these are out-of-sequnce
> then the syllables are presented to a child
> precomposed in a chart.
> Then the child goes through the process of becomingOr maybe the Chinese and Korean kids were taught in
> literate. In a tranliteration program English
> displays so that is okay - not so confusing and
> Tamil becomes a script that is recognized but
> not produced.
>
> > Don't think about the rendering system
> > for now. Then tell us about your proposed input
> > system.
>
> This is an interesting problem and originally I
> thought that I could
> just choose something that already exists somewhere.
> Maybe it still does.
> There are several sites in India and experiments - IYou're welcome!
> know Multilingual System in Madras is not Unicode
> but what does their system look like? Who in the
> Tamil community has something they use with children
> that isinternet enabled? i don't know - I am just
> beginning the search.
>
> Thanks very much for asking.