Re: functional classification of writing systems

--- In qalam@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Dunbar
<hippietrail@...> wrote:

> --- suzmccarth <suzmccarth@...> wrote: > No
> value judgements intended. Just this, When I
> > present
> > multilingual computing to other teachers I would
> > like to say that:
> >
> > 1. Some scripts have linear, sequenced blocks of
> > letters and some
> > have syllable blocks. (This way I do not have to
> > use terms like
> > syllabaries, alphabets and abugidas.) Normally the
> > systems with
> > linear blocks are in the first section of languages
> > in language
> > support and work like a western alphabet.
> >
> > 2. There are systems with syllable blocks and they
> > are on the
> > computer Asian languages, specifically CKJ.
>
> Korean definitely, Chinese I suppose, Japanese is way
> more complex.

Yes, I read an interesting article about how the computer is
changing the way people are writing in Japan, too.

>
> > 3. Then I have to explain what "complex" means. I
> > must make this
> > meaningful... so I could say that (besides the bidi
> > scripts, we
> > understand those) there are writing systems that are
> > linear but not
> > sequenced by sound production. These systems are
> > normally arranged
> > into syllable blocks when they are taught to
> > children on paper but on
> > the computer they are not composed in syllable
> > blocks.
>
> I'm not sure about "normally". If you say it's the
> case with Tamil I believe you, but Tamil is quite a
> bit different to its related writing systems and I
> don't know if they have a pedagogic syllabic model.

They do, I have seen it in the children's hands, on my bulletin
board, seen it in books and on the interent and read about it but I
have never been in a Tamil elementary school classroom so I
have to be cautious.

> "Complex script" may be a computer-age term. Basically
> it means that the writing system is out-of-sequence
> compared to the spoken language (Some vowels written
> before the consonant, whereas in speech the vowel
> follows the consonant), plus also the presence of
> complex ligatures.

Yes, out-of-sequence, plus ligatures and other changes.

>
> > Then when a teacher spells a word out loud to a
> > child or provides a
> > written model for the child to copy in that language
> > the teacher has
> > to know that the child cannot use a linear system to
> > keyboard the
> > letters. (Unless, of course, I can download another
> > system than what
> > is provided in Uniscribe.) That is a very
> > significant difficulty.
> > Many children through the years copy an oral
> > spelling or written
> > model in a linear fashion to input their search word
> > into google.
> > This truly does affect how children and the less
> > literate achieve
> > digital literacy.
>
> I understand what you are saying. But it seems you
> don't know how such a system would work yourself.

Okay, I have tried 5 Tamil keyboards. The Tamilword98
keyboards, 3 different layouts, were truetype, I think, nothing
changes shape or order. The one that was mapped closely to
the sounds of the English alphabet was the easiest because we
didn't have a keyboard map.

Then, because we wanted to do internet searches I bought a
windows XP laptop. I had to be compatible with my PC
classroom for reports, website, etc. I installed the Tamil
language support and keyboard. I could use it with the student
and we did some simple searches. However, he could not use
it himself. Since then I have tried the transliteration unicode
system that I saw in an email site. It seemed to be fairly easy.
So in order of ease for a somewhat bilingual child - the
romanized truetype keyboard, then the transliteration split-screen
system, then the others.

The Chinese students use several of the Chinese IME's and
work on the laptop everyday. Or in njstar98. A couple of students
have come very recently from Central China and they love to
write their story in Chinese then get a classmate to translate it
then I post the stories in both languages and they read each
others stories or email or google funny and interesting sites,
comics, anime, neopets, etc.

It

> seems you are trying to convince us of the need -
> which is probably true - but if you want a better
> input system, just come up with one then present it.
> Uniscribe has nothing at all to do with input - for
> input you need either a keyboard layout, or an input
> method.

So, I think that the keyboard layout is difficult, but also the
rendering is a little tricky because kids don't like letters that
change shape, but i guess they could learn. Then the fact that
the syllables can never be displayed or chosen as syllables,
precomposed blocks, all that , I am not sure what is most
important.

> Uniscribe is the rendering system. In the old days we
> didn't need one but now with many exotic writing
> systems we need to convert the "encoded text" into
> something visual. Because of ligatures, bidi, etc, we
> need a rendering system. On Windows this system is
> called Uniscribe. Other OSes have their own systems.

So I bought winXP, thinking that because the IME's in CKJ
offered a good choice, the Tamil should be okay too. Is there a
different Unicode Tamil keyboard?

> > If there is no argument with this kind of vocabulay
> > I will go with
> > it. I must add that we have technology curriculum
> > goals that start in
> > grade 1. This is not a hypothetical discussion for
> > me.
>
> Worry less about the vocabulary

since I dropped the 'alphabet', 'syllabary' words it is easier to
communicate

but do learn the

> difference between input, rendering, fonts, encodings,
> etc. Interact with the kids and try to visualize an
> input system.

i know the difference when I see it happen on the screen but it is
hard to disentangle the effects at first.

I think, somehow that coordination between visual image and
order of sound production (and keyboard input) is fundamental
in learning literacy. That is one of the ways a child learns to be
literate. The image of the sound in the mind has to match the
visual image somehow. If these are out-of-sequnce then the
syllables are presented to a child precomposed in a chart .
Then the child goes through the process of becoming literate.
In a tranliteration program English displays so that is okay - not
so confusing and Tamil becomes a script that is recognized but
not produced.

>Don't think about the rendering system
> for now. Then tell us about your proposed input
> system.

This is an interesting problem and originally I thought that I could
just choose something that already exists somewhere. Maybe it
still does. There are several sites in India and experiments - I
know Multilingual System in Madras is not Unicode but what
does their system look like? Who in the Tamil community has
something they use with children that isinternet enabled? i don't
know - I am just beginning the search.

Thanks very much for asking.

> Andrew Dunbar.
>
>
> =====
> http://linguaphile.sf.net/cgi-bin/translator.pl

http://www.abisource.com

>
>
>
>
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>

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