Lars Marius Garshol wrote:

>
> * Lars Marius Garshol
> |
> | I don't think anyone is advocating anything else, but at the same
> | time it is clear that they have something in common, which is that
> | the basic graphic units of both kinds of script denote syllables.
> | This sets them apart from alphabets and abjads, where the units
> | denote more basic phonetic units.
>
> * Peter T. Daniels
> |
> | That's like putting birds, bees, and bats together because they all
> | have wings.
>
> To some extent that is true, but birds and bees have fundamental
> differences of a kind that I am not sure abugidas and syllabaries do.
> What fundamental difference do you see that keep abugidas and
> syllabaries so far apart that they are not even allowed a common
> supertype below 'script'?

Just as with the biological analogy, their ancestry is different.

> * Lars Marius Garshol
> |
> | Do you dispute that single-member classes are inherently suspect?
>
> * Peter T. Daniels
> |
> | Obviously not, since "alphabet" appears in my system.
>
> Did you mean "I obviously do dispute that single-member classes are
> suspect, because I have the class 'alphabet' in my system"?
>
> Do you really think that there is only one alphabet? If so, what is
> your response to the following statement:
>
> "Alphabet
>
> A type of writing system that denotes consonants and vowels with
> separate characters.
>
> There are 36 instances: Armenian, Asomtavruli, Avestan, Buryat,
> Carian, Cirth, Coptic script, Cyrillic, Deseret, Etruscan script,
> Georgian script, Geyinzi, Glagolithic, Gothic script, Greek, Latin
> script, Lycian, Lydian, Manchu, Mandaic script, Meroitic, Modern
> syriac, Mongolian clear script, Mongolian script, N'ko,
> Nusxa-xucuri, Ogham, Old Persian Cuneiform, Orkhon, Osmanya, Punic
> script, Runic, Shavian, Sidetic, Thaana, Utopian."

Who came up with the idiotic number 36? Surely more than that are
mentioned within WWS (let alone Diringer or Jensen or even Coulmas) ...
and this list includes several abjads as well.

> Are these really all the same script? If not, what classes do the ones
> that are not _the_ alphabet belong to?
>
> Also, you refer to your system. Where is that defined? Which classes
> does it consist of? Is "alphasyllabary" included, for example?

You claim you have access to WWS, and you don't know?

> * Lars Marius Garshol
> |
> | Does this mean that the members of these two classes are identical,
> | except that 'Phags pa is a member of one, and not of the other? If so,
> | which of the classes is it a member of, and why is it only a member of
> | one?
>
> * Peter T. Daniels
> |
> | It means that Bill's definition of "alphasyllabary" excludes hPags
> | pa, and my definition of "abugida" includes hPags pa. For me, it's
> | functional: the unmarked character includes the unmarked vowel. For
> | Bill, it's formal: the vowel indicators are physically different
> | from the consonant letters and can go anywhere, but hPags pa vowels
> | are barely distinguishable from consonants and only go after.
>
> OK. That makes sense.
>
> | (Clearly, my definition is better. :-) )
>
> Of course. :)

--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...