On 05-02-24 14:32, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:51:21 +0100, Piotr Gasiorowski
> <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
>
>>On 05-02-24 12:58, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Perhaps "slack" is not the most appropriate term. If we
>>>start from modal voice and progressively constrict the
>>>arytenoids, we get stiff voice, creaky voice and glottal
>>>stop. If we progressively widen the arytenoids, we get
>>>slack voice, breathy voice, voicelessness and aspiration.
>>
>>This is a gross oversimplifaction.
>
>
> No it isn't. It's a precise description of what happens on
> the arytenoid side of things.
>
>
>>Phonation is a function of _two_
>>tensions, adductive and longitudinal, so you can't very well arrange all
>>phonation types along a scale where only the adduction or abduction of
>>the arytenoids matters.
>
>
> Why not? We can arrange vowels from back to front.

All right, but if you want to discuss phenomena conditioned by vowel
height, such a description will not be adequate. The frequency of
vibration depends on the longitudinal dimension, ignored in this
arrangement. _That_ is the oversimplification I had in mind.

>>It so happens that the high pitch induced by
>>voiceless obstruents is caused by the action of the cricothyroids,
>>lengthening and thinning the vocal folds and thus increasing their
>>_longitudinal_ tension. This has little to do directly with the absence
>>of _adductice_ tension (except that both gestures conspire to expand the
>>glottis). For modal voice, tension along both dimensions is only
>>moderate. With weak longitudinal tension but very strong adductive
>>tension you get creaky voice; with minimal adductive tension and medium
>>longitudinal tension, breathy voice, etc.
>
>
> What I was interested in was creating a square or trapezoid
> representation of the two factors, in the way the vowels are
> represented.
>
> The arytenoid dimension is clear. The longitudinal
> dimension (raising/lowering of the larynx and/or tension of
> the cricothyroids) is not described adequately in e.g.
> Ladefoged and Maddieson. We have a downward movement of the
> larynx in the case of implosives, and an upward movement in
> the case of ejectives, but how the other sounds relate to
> this in the longitudinal dimension is not very well
> explained (on p. 64 it is suggested that slack voice is
> associated with a lowering of the larynx [lowered F1]), and
> somewhere else I remember seeing a suggestion that the
> larynx is more raised in voiceless aspirates. A preliminary
> representation would be:
>
> high close ----------------------- open
> | ?/t' tH/h
> | t
> | dH
> | d
> | d~
> | 'd <----------> 'd
> low
>
> But I suspect there's more to it than this.

You may find this link helpful:

http://www.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/phonetik/EGG/frmst1.htm

and especially

http://www.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/phonetik/EGG/page10.htm

Piotr