--- In phoNet@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@w...> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:12:06 +0000, Richard Wordingham
> <richard.wordingham@n...> wrote:
>
> >It doesn't. The symbol is 'M\', extended SAMPA for the velar
> >frictionless continuant.
>
> OK, so that's a [w] without lip-rounding.
>
> >I wanted to get comments on whether
> >people saw [3] as a half-open or mid - the IPA seems to have
> >redefined it. They've definitely redefined [8] (o with a
horizontal
> >line through it, to confuse those who can't write thetas) from
mid
> >(1979) to half-open (by 1993).
>
> You mean half-close (you must be an optimist).

My mistake. Yes, I was trying to quote from memory.

> The early versions of IPA only had three schwa-like symbols:
> [&] central (schwa) mid unrounded
> [8] central mid rounded
> [3] central half-open unrounded (centralized [E]).
>
> In the 1993 chart, we have:
>
> central
> half-close [&*] [8]
> mid [&]
> half-open [3] [3*]
>
> (&* being reversed e, 3* closed 3).

So what do we do on Yahoo!? Text following '@' in a word gets
hidden in the archives. Extended-Extended SAMPA

central
half-close [8\] [8]
mid [&\]
half-open [3] [3\]

perhaps?

This makes British 'bird' [b8\:d] or [b&\:d]. It certainly isn't
[b3:d].

> The note to the vowel chart says:
> "Where symbols appear in pairs, the one to the right represents a
rounded
> vowel"). This means that schwa has been changed from "mid
unrounded" to
> "mid". [8] has been changed from "mid rounded" to "half-close
rounded", to
> match the new symbol [&*], while its old position has been usurped
by [&].
>
> In (phonological) practice, this means that you can now use /&/ to
denote
> any mid-central vowel, even if its main allophone is rounded
(French,
> Dutch).

You mean that's the last defence deferring to the IPA. I don't
think you could sensibly use [U] for an unrounded vowel - or does
that happen with Japanese?

Richard.