Re: Question on ṭhānesu from Mahāparinibbāna commentary

Dear Bhante,

Thank you for explaining this.

So, if I understand you correctly, abyākata modifies bhavaṅgacitta and dukkhasaccena is a bahubbīhi modifying bhavaṅgacitta? In which case bhavaṅgacitta "possesses" the truth of suffering? or perhaps better put, the truth of suffering (dukkhasaccena as an attributive compound) is an attribute of the bhavaṅgacitta. Or is dukkhasaccena better regarded as a tappurisa in apposition to bhavaṅgacitta? The Buddha enters parinibbāna with an indeterminate life-continuum mind (that is), with the truth of suffering.

With the translation of "pertaining to" it would ordinarily be in the locative, i. e. bhavaṅgacittena avyākatena dukkhasacce and avyākatena would normally come before bhavaṅgacittena, i. e. ...avyākatena bhavaṅgcittena dukkhasacce parinibbāyi. And, if it's a bahubbīhi, dukkhasaccena would ordinarily go before what if modifies, i. e. dukkhasaccena avyākatena bhavaṅgasaccena. So it's no wonder the sentence is not clear!

Once again, thanks for your help,

Mettā, Bryan

On Wednesday, September 5, 2018, 5:45:24 PM NDT, Bhikkhu Bodhi venbodhi@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dear Bryan,

This is my understanding of the question you pose (and I am quite sure I'm correct about this):

According to the Abhidhamma, the last moment in any given life span is called the cuticitta. This is actually the last moment of the bhavangasota, but because it terminates the life (rather than sustains it) it is called the cuticitta. The first moment of a new existence, which begins the series that becomes the bhavaṅga, is the paṭisandhicitta. In any given life, all three--the paṭisandhi, the bhavaṅga, and the cuti--are of the same type of citta (by way of the taxonomy of 89 cittas), differing only in their function.

Cittas can be of three qualities in terms of their ethical character: kusala, akusala, or abyākata. Resultant cittas are necessarily abyākata (and so too are the kiriya or functional cittas). The bhavaṅgacittas, including the cuticitta, are resultants and thus abyākata.

In terms of the Abhidhamma classification of dhammas with respect to the four noble truths, all conditioned dhammas of the three mundane planes, with one exception, pertain to the dukkhasacca. That one exception is craving (taṇhā), which is the samudayasacca. The eight magganga cetasikas in the four lokuttaramagga cittas constitute the maggasacca. Nibbāna is the nirodhasacca.

In this light, again take the sentence you quote:

bhagavā pana jhānaṃ samāpajjitvā jhānā vuṭṭhāya jhānaṅgāni paccavekkhitvā bhavaṅgacittena abyākatena dukkhasaccena parinibbāyi.

It is saying that, after attaining the jhāna, emerging from the jhāna, and reviewing the jhāna factors, the Blessed One passed away with a bhavaṅgacitta (= the cuticitta) that is kammically indeterminate and pertains to the dukkhasacca.His passing into nibbana is distinguished from that of some other arahants who pass away after emerging from the jhana and entering the terminal bhavanga, without reviewing the jhana factors. But the Buddha has the highest mindfulness and wisdom, so he must review the jhana factors before he passes away.

Note that even the Buddha’s bhavaṅga and death consciousness are assigned to the dukkhasacca. See the immediately following sentence of this Comy:

Ye hi keci buddhā vā paccekabuddhā vā ariyasāvakā vā antamaso kunthakipillikaṃ upādāya sabbe bhavaṅgacitteneva abyākatena dukkhasaccena kālaṅkarontīti.

Whether it be buddhas or paccekabuddhas or noble disciples, even down to kunthakipillikaṃ (different kinds of ants?), all pass away only with a bhavaṅgacitta that is indeterminate and [pertains to] the truth of suffering.

With metta,
Bhikkhu Bodhi

On 9/5/2018 7:06 AM, Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy] wrote:

Dear Dmytro,

Thanks very much for this reference. In the Vsm he uses the word jhānika, "belonging to the first jhāna, etc.," so I guess "grounds" or "bases" is a good translation

On paricchedākāsa Vsm (5.24) uses the word paricchinnākāsa rather than paricchedākāsa, but they come from the same word, so obviously the same thing.

Thanks very much for your help. One other question on this passage: when the commentary says (DN-a 2, 594 last line)

bhagavā pana jhānaṃ samāpajjitvā jhānā vuṭṭhāya jhānaṅgāni paccavekkhitvā bhavaṅgacittena abyākatena dukkhasaccena parinibbāyi.

"The Bhagavan after entering the (fourth) jhāna, and arising from the jhāna, after observing the jhāna factors (the thirteen grounds already mentioned) entered parinibbāna, with the life-continuum mind unaffected (avyākata) by the truth of suffering."

I am wondering what the word avyākata means in this context? According to the CPD the meaning is "indeterminate" "undecided" but those definitions don't seem to fit here. Is the sense of this line that the dukkhasacca is not relevant/has no effect at the level of the bhavaṅgacitta?

Thanks again for your help,

Mettā,

Bryan

On Wednesday, September 5, 2018, 5:15:53 AM NDT, Dmytro Ivakhnenko aavuso@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dear Bryan,

See Visuddhimagga III, 107. For example, the fourth jhana can be reached on the basis of ten kasinas, fourth divine abiding and four arūpa attainments - hence fifteen grounds altogether.

Limited space is one of Visuddhimagga kasina-mandalas.

Best wishes, Dmytro

Ср, 5 вер. 2018, 02:11 користувач Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com> пише:

Dear Pāli friends,

In the Mahāparinibbānasutta, the Buddha enters parinibbāna from the fourth jhāna after going from first to the ninth jhāna (cesssation) and back down again to the first, and up to the fourth (DN 2, 156).

The commentary (Sv 2, 594) talks about this last run through jhānas one to four:

ettha bhagavā catuvīsatiyā ṭhānesu paṭhamajjhānaṃ samāpajji, terasasu ṭhānesu dutiyajjhānaṃ, tathā tatiyajjhānaṃ, pannarasasu ṭhānesu catutthajjhānaṃ samāpajji.

“Here the Bhagavan entered into the first jhāna in twenty-four ṭhānesu, the second jhāna in thirteen ṭhānesu, the third jhāna in thirteen, and he entered the fourth jhāna in fifteen ṭhānesu.

My question is, what does ṭhānesu mean? and how would one translate catuvīsatiyā ṭhānesu? nothing I have come up with makes much sense. It seems that the twenty-four ṭhānas are subsumed somehow by the jhānas, so perhaps “He entered the first jhāna contaning 24 attributes/characteristics. But I don’t know of any canonical reference to the first jhāna containing such. Or perhaps it means “grounds”, viz., “he entered the first jhāna which had 24 grounds”, but again, I don’t know.Or perhaps "in twenty-four stages"?

The twenty-four ṭhānas are given in the same commentary as the ten asubha (foulness) meditations (similar to the cemetery meditations in the Satipaṭṭhana), the thirty-two parts of the body meditation, the eight kasiṇa meditations, the first three of the brahma-vihāra meditations (love, compassion and joy), in-and-out-breathing meditation and limit of space (paricchedakāse). if you count the 32 body-parts as one meditation (which it is), this adds up to twenty-four.

Cone lists several meanings for ṭhāna (situation, position, state, occasion, occurrence, attribute, characteristic, quality, ground, basis, reason, cause, stance, standpoint, condition), none of which seem to quite fit here.

Any ideas as to how to translate catuvīsatiyā ṭhānesu? and how does it make sense doctrinally? Thirdly, does anyone know what paricchedakāse means? Literally, it means “limit-space” and I know there was some controversy in the Kathāvatthu as to whether space had any limit or not. But I’m not familiar with any meditation on that point.

Thanks for your help,

Bryan

-- 
Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi
Chuang Yen Monastery
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Sabbe sattā averā hontu, abyāpajjā hontu, anighā hontu, sukhī hontu!
願眾生無怨，願眾生無害，願眾生無惱，願眾生快樂！
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