Re: Khandhesu....Paramatthajotika

 

Dear Petra,

Thanks for correcting this; yes it's the metaphor of the aggregates which should be known. I'll try again:

From an ultimate point of view, the Bhagavan has demonstrated that, "the metaphor of the aggregates has been established in regard to these beings", it should be known (or one should know), when he said, "While the aggregates are born, decay and die, monks, you are born, decay and die, from moment to moment."

or to follow the Pāli in the passive:

"...It has been shown by the Bhagavan that, "The metaphor of the aggregates has been established in regard to these beings" - it [the metaphor of the aggregates being established] should be known - with his saying, "While the aggregates...ṃoment."

Let me know if you can think of a better way of saying it. The veditabbo, I assume is outside the quotes,

Best wishes,

Bryan

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From: "Petra Kieffer-Pülz kiepue@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Khandhesu....Paramatthajotika

 

Dear Bryan,

in your translation khaṇe khaṇe is missing, and it cannot be „it should be known“ which would require veditabbaṃ, but the veditabbo goes with the khandhopacāro.

Part of the quote is also found in Vjb 33: Yasmā khaṇe khaṇe tvaṃ bhikkhu jāyasi ca jīyasi ca mīyasi ceti bhikkhuniyā santike abhikkhaṇaṃ gacchatī ti ca khaṇe khaṇe bhāsati satthusāsanan ti ca khaṇasaddo anekattho,  tathā samayasaddo ca, tasmā ekam ekena niyamento «eko va kho, bhikkhave, khaṇo ca samayo cā“ ti āha.

Best,

Petra

Am 20.10.2016 um 06:30 schrieb Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>:

Hi Rahula,

Your translation is good. The Burmese punctuates  khaṇe kaṇe as modifying the second part of the sentence, but it changes the meaning very little. The whole sentence reads:

paramatthato ca "khandhesu jāyamānesu jīyamānesu mīyamānesu ca khaṇe khaṇe tvaṃ bhikkhu jāyase ca jīyase ca mīyase cā”ti vadatā bhagavatā tesu sattesu khandhopacāro siddhoti dassito evāti veditabbo.Pj 1, 78.

From an ultimate point of view, it should be known that the Bhagavan has demonstrated that, "The metaphor of the aggregates has been established in regard to these beings" when he said, "While the aggregates are born, decay and die, monks, you are born, decay and die."

I haven't found the quote anywhere.If anyone has seen it please let us know the source,

Best wishes,

Bryan

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From: "Rahula rahula_80@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 7:58 AM
Subject: [palistudy] Khandhesu....Paramatthajotika

 

Hi,

How would you translate this text:

Khandhesu jāyamānesu jīyamānesu mīyamānesu ca khaṇe khaṇe tvaṃ bhikkhu jāyase ca jīyase ca mīyase cā

Draft translation:

As the aggregates arises, decay and passes away moment to moment, you, bhikkhu, are born, aged and die.

Thanks,
Rahula