Re: Dhp. V. 143

From: Bryan Levman
Message: 4697
Date: 2016-09-01

Dear Huynh Trong Khanh,

It is from the root prati + sthā (pratiṣṭhā in Skt. as the -s- changes to retroflex after the -r- of prati, and the -th is assimilated to the retroflex -ṣ- > -ṣṭh- ) which means to "stand firm" in the causative form pratiṣṭhāpayati which means to "cause to stand firm" or "to establish". The stem form (without the personal endings) of the causative is pratiṣṭhāpaya- which I assume is where this form is from (pratiṣṭhāpana) with the change of the -aya ending to -ana, which is a nominalizing kṛt suffix (suffixes that make a noun from a verbal root or stem).

Or, it is derived from the causative gerund pratiṣṭhāpaṃ ("having established")  which then only requires the addition of the -ana ending. Perhaps someone knows Pāṇini well enough to look up the derivation there, but I'm not that familiar with the Aṣtādhyāyī.

In Pāli the pra- > pa- and the -tiṣṭhāpaya > tiṭṭhāpaya, and the -aya- usually changes to -e- so the verbal form is usually patiṭṭhāpe- (e.g. patiṭṭhāpeti) which is where you'll find it in the Pāli dictionaries,

Hope that helps,

Bryan



From: "KHANH TRONG HUYNH testsuda@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: "palistudy@yahoogroups.com" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Dhp. V. 143

 
Dear Prof Bryan and Dmytro!

All of you helped me so much.  Your replies came to me at the time when I was finding out the meaning of patiṭṭhāpanaṃ which is not in the Pali Dictionaries.

I tried applying the principles from the table of Dmytro, and guess the Sanskrit-equivalent word of it is pratiṣṭhāpana which means "establishment ...".  So very useful, however for this word, I still not acknowledge its forming, it seems like:  prati + (ṣṭhā) + PANA

Is PANA a suffix or just ANA and the "P" was inserted according to Intenal Sandhi?  It is the same PANA existing in the Pali word.

Sincerely yours,
 

From: "Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: "palistudy@yahoogroups.com" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Dhp. V. 143

 
Dear Huynh Trong Khanh,

There are a number of places where you can find this information and thank you Dmytro for the useful chart from Fahs.

Walshe has a simple summary in the his Technical notes intro to the Dīgha Nīkaya which is a good introduction.

The most complete summary I know is Pischel's Prakrit Grammar which is about all the Prakrits derived from Old Indic, but also applies to Pāli.

Oskar von Hinüber also has a good summary in his
Hinüber, O. v. 2001. Das ältere Mittelindisch im Überblick. Wien: Verlag der Österreichischen Akademie der Wissenschaften.'

but it is in German.

Woolner, A. C. 1996. Introduction to Prakrit. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass Publishers. Second edition originally published 1928.


also has a good summary (Prakrit oriented as opposed to Pāli only).

Recently (2001) Oberlies has come out with a Pali Grammar which  also has all the information.

Linguists use the term Middle Indic to describe Pali and the other Prakrits, and they are derived from Old Indic, whiich strictly speaking is Vedic. Sanskrit of course derivces from Vedic but has some differences, and really refers to the language standardized by Pāṇini who lived mid-first millennium BCE,


I have dealt with the principal simplifications in a recent (2016) article which you also may find informative,


Levman, Bryan. 2016. "The Language of Early Buddhism." Journal of South Asian Languages and Linguistics 3(1): 1-41.

and of course Geiger has a lot of this information as well under his "Phonology" section at the beginning.

Hope that helps,

Best wishes,

Bryan

From: "Dmytro Ivakhnenko aavuso@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Dhp. V. 143

 
Dear Huynh Trong Khanh,

You may find useful the table:
Sincerely yours,
                           Dmytro


2016-08-31 7:01 GMT+03:00 KHANH TRONG HUYNH testsuda@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>:
 
Dear Prof Bryan,

You wrote "If the original verb was pabodhati, then there should be two -pp- on negation, because of the original Skt. prabodhati (the second -p- representing the lost Skt. -r- in pra-)..."

So, it seems that there's something like vocal-transmission-rules between Pali and Sanskrit.  Cause your analysis showed me that they're very useful for identifying word forms, I would like to ask you where can I find those rules from.  Usually, most textbooks I learned just cover rules for the language itself without mentioning anything about its relative-one.

Sincerely your,

Huynh Trong Khanh


From: "Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: "palistudy@yahoogroups.com" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2016 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Dhp. V. 143

 
Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,

If it were "awakens out of sleep" then the form would be pabodhati, without the negatīng a-  ("... who does not give rise to blame, like a good horse does not give rise to the whip").

Norman takes it as appaṃ bodhati ("who thinks little of censure, as a well-bred horse thinks little of the whip") in his Word of the Doctrine, which he takes from Rau 1959.
The verse also occurs at SN 1, 7.The Burmese has apa and the PTS (Sinhalese) has appa. CPD has apa-bodhati in the meaning "ward off" which is quite different to a-pabodhati ("not wake up, not give rise"). Whereas the appa with two -pp- has yet another meaning.

If the original verb was pabodhati, then there should be two -pp- on negation, because of the original Skt. prabodhati (the second -p- representing the lost Skt. -r- in pra-). Then the form is the same as appa-bodhati, with appa meaning little. this can probably never be unravelled and points out problems in the transmission. Since originally it was transmitted orally the difference between apa-bodhati and appa-bodhati and apa-bodhati would be very hard to hear, without someone spelling it out and this confusion looks like a classic case of transmissional ambiguities. Keep in mind as well that in the first written documents geminates were not shown, so that again leaves it to the scribe's interpretation. Hope that helps,

Mettā,

Bryan


From: "Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu yuttadhammo@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 8:23 PM
Subject: [palistudy] Dhp. V. 143

 
Another question, about Dhp 143:

yo niddaṃ apabodheti, asso bhadro kasāmiva.

The word niddaṃ is alternatively nindaṃ, and apabodheti could be apabodhati.

The Buddharakkhita translation says "who avoids reproach, as a thoroughbred horse avoids the whip", which seems like an odd image, whereas something like "who awakens out of (apabodhati) sleep (nidda.m) as a thoroughbred horse [awakens due to] a whip" seems more reasonable. The commentary says:

yo niddanti appamatto samaṇadhammaṃ karonto attano uppannaṃ niddaṃ apaharanto bujjhatīti apabodheti.

which, again oddly to my mind, seems to be translated in the PED as "forstalleth blame", under the entry for pabodhati:

(=nindaŋ apaharanto bujjhati DhA iii.86; trsl. KS 13 "forestalleth blame")

Any thoughts on this? The origin story is about a monk who keeps thinking to go back to the lay life, and can be seen as either waking up repeatedly or avoiding blame repeatedly by contemplating his old set of clothes.









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