Re: Use of Atthakatha & Tika

From: Bryan Levman
Message: 4646
Date: 2016-06-16

Dear Huynh,

Yes, I think it's just because of the time they were composed. The suttas seem to me simpler than the  commentaries in terms of syntax, but the commentaries are generally the same language; since it was/is an academic language of monks by and large (rather than a spoken language), it doesn't evolve, but stays more or less the same, using the suttas and vinaya as their reference point for vocabulary and syntax. Some of the commentaries get quite complex in terms of structure, as they are trying to explicate complicated philosophical or dogmatic points which are (generally) not present in the suttas and vinaya (but may be sometimes in the Abhidhamma).

Medieval Pāli (in my understanding) just refers to the time it was composed. Obviously various technical terms are developed over time, especially among the grammarians, but by and large, I think they are borrowed from the Sanskrit which is another Indo Aryan language which was fixed by Pāṇini and hasn't changed since. A living, spoken language, evolves, but an academic, learned language of the saṅgha tends to be very conservative and stay the same, as it is constantly referring back to its source, the suttas and vinaya and abhidhamma,

Best wishes,

Bryan





From: "KHANH TRONG HUYNH testsuda@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: "palistudy@yahoogroups.com" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Use of Atthakatha & Tika

 
Dear Pro Bryan,

Thanks so much Pro, I often refer to Atthakatha & Tika when translating Suttas, and I don't find them so much different from Tipitaka in terms of syntax (except their sandhi applying that is similar with Sanskrit).  But, why do we treat them as Medieval Pali?  That is just for their composed time?

Sincerely yours,

Huynh Trong Khanh



From: "Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: "palistudy@yahoogroups.com" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Use of Atthakatha & Tika

 
Dear Huynh,

Sometimes, when you can't find a word or phrase in the dictionary, that's your only alternative. First I check whether it's been used in the vinaya or suttas or abhidhamma. If it has, then there may already be a translation for it and you can look that up. If not, it's quite possible it will be defined in the aṭṭhakathā or ṭīkā, and you can look that up. With contradictory definitions you have to judge by the context which fits, and using a little detective word as to what's suitable, you should be able to figure it out. You are quite right that some words are quite malleable and have several different meanings, but usually it you examine the passage carefully, and also look at similar passages,in similar contexts, you can find the right meaning that illuminates the passage,

Hope that helps,

Bryan





From: "KHANH TRONG HUYNH testsuda@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: yahoogroups <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:08 PM
Subject: [palistudy] Use of Atthakatha & Tika

 
Dear all,

Sometimes, I cannot look up some "difficult words or phrases" in Atthakatha or Tika of a certain sutta.  However, those words or phrases could be found in another Atthakatha or Tika as well.  So, I have 2 particular questions:

[1]  Could we use another Attthakatha or Tika for reading a certain Sutta?  How could we know it will be the same meaning with the word/phrase that we are dealing with

[2]  Whether 2 separated Atthakathas/Tikas could be conflicted with each other?  If yes, what are your advices for this case?

Sincerely yours,

Huynh Trong Khanh








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