From: Bhikkhu Bodhi
Message: 4500
Date: 2015-11-30
Dear Bhikkhu Bodhi,
Your second idea is the correct one, since the ca needs a second ca. The vā sandhaya seems problematic. But this is not the only instance where it appears. So if we have to accept it as the only reading, then pacchā āgataparisaṃ and assavanasussavana-ādhāraṇadaḷhikaraṇādīnī vā have to be understood as two members connected with tadatthadīpaka. There are several options for the resolution of the compound, but if we separate it from the assembly that came late, then it has to reflect a different situation. Since ādhāraṇa and daḷhikaraṇa are combined a second time in this commentary (Pj II 290,7) I would suggest that these two form a dvandva. The ādi shows that other nouns could be added. assavanasussavana I would suggest to understand as a tatpurusa "a good saying not listened to". Thus this part of the sentence could be translated as:(1) An illustration of that same meaning [that is, the meaning of the prose portion] for an assembly that has arrived late, or for confirmation and reinforcement of a good declaration not listened to;
Best,Petra
Am 30.11.2015 um 00:52 schrieb Bhikkhu Bodhi venbodhi@... [palistudy]:
Dear Bryan,
Thank you for your reply. Meanwhile, I have come to see the passage in a different light than when I wrote earlier today. Now I take the two alternatives as shown by the numbers (1) and (2) below:
Tattha aparanti gāthābandhavacanaṃ sandhāya vuccati. Taṃ duvidhaṃ hoti – pacchā āgataparisaṃ assavanasussavanaādhāraṇadaḷhīkaraṇādīni vā sandhāya tadatthadīpakameva ca. Pubbe kenaci kāraṇena parihāpitassa atthassa dīpanena atthavisesadīpakañ ca ‘‘purisassa hi jātassa, kuṭhārī jāyate mukhe’’ti ādīsu (su. ni. 662) viya. Idha pana tadatthadīpakameva.
Here, “further” is said with reference to the verse composition. And that [verse composition] is twofold: (1) An illustration of that same meaning [that is, the meaning of the prose portion], as a confirmation and reiteration of a good declaration for an assembly that has arrived late and has not heard it; and (2) An illustration of a distinct meaning by illustration of a meaning that for some reason had been previously omitted [in the prose portion], as in the case of the verse, “When a person has taken birth, an axe is born inside his mouth” and so forth (Sn 657). But here it is an illustration of the same meaning [as the prose portion].
That is, the main distinction is between a verse that conveys the same message as the prose, just reiterating it in verse form, and a verse that conveys a different meaning not conveyed in the prose. When there is a conjunction indicated by the two 'ca's, I don't see what function the vā serves in the statement. I also wonder whether the second sandhāya (following vā) may not be an error (though present in all editions), since it seems to me to detract from rather than contribute to the meaning. I've had to bend the grammatical forms of assavanasussavana; otherwise the sentence seems incoherent to me. Any thoughts about this (from Bryan or anyone else)?
Athassa kilesesu virattamānasassa etadahosi – ‘‘rāgaggimhi nibbute nibbutaṃ nāma hoti, dosaggimhi nibbute nibbutaṃ nāma hoti, mohaggimhi nibbute nibbutaṃ nāma hoti, mānadiṭṭhiādīsu sabbakilesadarathesu nibbutesu nibbutaṃ nāma hoti. Ayaṃ me sussavanaṃ sāvesi, ahaṃ hi nibbānaṃ gavesanto carāmi, ajjeva mayā gharāvāsaṃ chaḍḍetvā nikkhamma pabbajitvā nibbānaṃ gavesituṃ vaṭṭati,
On 11/29/2015 2:52 PM, Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy] wrote:
Dear Ven. Bodhi,The alternative Burmese reading seems to be clearer:assavanassa puna savanaṃ ādhāraṇad …
“Because of supporting the hearing again for one [ that is, the assembly] who didn’t hear.Based on this, the compound in question assavana-sussavana-ādhāraṇa-daḷhī-karaṇādīni is an overall tappurisa with a subordinate dvanda and tappurisa within:
“In order to strengthen and support etc., (dvanda), the good news (Childers, 490; accusative tappurisa) for one who hasn’t heard (it)” (gen. or dat. tappurisa), the whole compound modifying the late-coming group.This seems to make sense, at least to me,
Mettā
Bryan
From: "Bhikkhu Bodhi venbodhi@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 1:31 PM
Subject: [palistudy] Suttanipata Comy on word aparam
Dear Pali Friends,
Can someone help me with the following passage from Paramattha-jotikā II, p. 398, commenting on the word aparaṃ in the Subhāsitasutta. It occurs in the stock phrase: Idaṃ vatvāna sugato athāparaṃ etadavoca satthā ("Having said this, the Fortunate One, the Teacher, further said this: ...").
Tattha aparanti gāthābandhavacanaṃ sandhāya vuccati. Taṃ duvidhaṃ hoti – pacchā āgataparisaṃ assavanasussavanaādhāraṇadaḷhīkaraṇādīni vā sandhāya tadatthadīpakameva ca. Pubbe kenaci kāraṇena parihāpitassa atthassa dīpanena atthavisesadīpakañca ‘‘purisassa hi jātassa, kuṭhārī jāyate mukhe’’ tiādīsu (su. ni. 662) viya. Idha pana tadatthadīpakameva.
Here is my tentative translation:
Here, the word “further” (aparaṃ) is used with reference to the statement that connects the verse [to the prose]. That is done in two ways: (1) With reference to an assembly that has arrived late, as the confirmation and reinforcement, etc., of what has not been heard and what has been well heard, and (2) as illustrating its meaning. And “illustrating a particular meaning” [is achieved] by illustration of a meaning that for some reason has previously been omitted, as in the case of the verse, “When a person has taken birth an axe is born inside his mouth” and so forth (Sn 657).
I'm particularly stumped by the expression assavanasussavanaādhāraṇadaḷhīkaraṇādīni vā sandhāya. Is the long compound to be taken as a four-term dvanda (assavana + sussavana + ādhāraṇa + daḷhīkaraṇādīni)? Or is there a tappurisa relationship between assavanasussavana and ādhāraṇadaḷhīkaraṇādīni (which is how I have tentatively rendered it)? And what exactly is the role here of assavanasussavana, "non-hearing" and "well-hearing"?
As I understand it, the reference to the verse about the axe in the mouth is brought in to show that what is missing in the prose (the parihāpita attha) is an explicit condemnation of slanderous speech. In the prose the Buddha only warns Kokaliya not to malign Sariputta and Moggallana, but he does not draw a general principle from this. The verses bring out the general principle. Of course, I could be completely off base here.
I welcome any comments. Thank you in advance.
Best wishes,
-- Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi Chuang Yen Monastery 2020 Route 301 Carmel NY 10512 U.S.A. To help feed the hungry and educate disadvantaged children around the world, please check: Our website: http://www.buddhistglobalrelief.org/ Our blog: http://buddhistglobalrelief.wordpress.com/ For my Dhamma lectures and teachings: http://www.baus.org/en/?cat=9 (includes schedule of classes) http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html http://www.noblepath.org/audio.html http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL23DE0292227250FA For my public photo albums: http://picasaweb.google.com/venbodhi Sabbe sattā averā hontu, abyāpajjā hontu, anighā hontu, sukhī hontu! 願眾生無怨，願眾生無害，願眾生無惱，願眾生快樂！ May all beings be free from enmity, free from affliction, free from distress. May they be happy!
-- Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi Chuang Yen Monastery 2020 Route 301 Carmel NY 10512 U.S.A. To help feed the hungry and educate disadvantaged children around the world, please check: Our website: http://www.buddhistglobalrelief.org/ Our blog: http://buddhistglobalrelief.wordpress.com/ For my Dhamma lectures and teachings: http://www.baus.org/en/?cat=9 (includes schedule of classes) http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html http://www.noblepath.org/audio.html http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL23DE0292227250FA For my public photo albums: http://picasaweb.google.com/venbodhi Sabbe sattā averā hontu, abyāpajjā hontu, anighā hontu, sukhī hontu! 願眾生無怨，願眾生無害，願眾生無惱，願眾生快樂！ May all beings be free from enmity, free from affliction, free from distress. May they be happy!
-- Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi Chuang Yen Monastery 2020 Route 301 Carmel NY 10512 U.S.A. To help feed the hungry and educate disadvantaged children around the world, please check: Our website: http://www.buddhistglobalrelief.org/ Our blog: http://buddhistglobalrelief.wordpress.com/ For my Dhamma lectures and teachings: http://www.baus.org/en/?cat=9 (includes schedule of classes) http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html http://www.noblepath.org/audio.html http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL23DE0292227250FA For my public photo albums: http://picasaweb.google.com/venbodhi Sabbe sattā averā hontu, abyāpajjā hontu, anighā hontu, sukhī hontu! 願眾生無怨，願眾生無害，願眾生無惱，願眾生快樂！ May all beings be free from enmity, free from affliction, free from distress. May they be happy!